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Submitted by Phil Owen on Wed, 01/02/2008 - 8:15pm.
You say that race doesn't matter. You say that qualifications are all that counts in employment and education. You say that money is all that matters in lending and other market exchanges. You say that you're color-blind, and that it's time to overturn affirmative action programs. In fact, you say that affirmative action is reverse-racism. You adamantly insist that you are not a racist, either overtly or unconsciously. Now's your chance to prove it. Either you have no racist tendencies or preferences... or this is your "Come to Jesus" moment. Take the test. Post your results. (Be brave!)
Go here to take the test, then click on "Race IAT".
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This site is elitist
Submitted by security_six on Wed, 01/02/2008 - 8:19pm.It does not like my web browser. I feel offended. Clearly it is tilted in favor of those with mainstream full featured web browsers :-) (Am using Lynx for the moment)
Try it at the library.
Submitted by Phil Owen on Wed, 01/02/2008 - 8:22pm.It takes less than ten minutes. And it could be an very big eye opening experience. Or maybe not. But the statistics show it likely should be.
The Canaanite's Call
I was joking around. I am
Submitted by security_six on Wed, 01/02/2008 - 8:27pm.I was joking around. I am installing a full featured browser, but I am waiting for X to finish emerging so I can install a window manager and Firefox. Dang I hate explaining jokes.
Well, if you'd stop speaking in foreign languages...
Submitted by Phil Owen on Wed, 01/02/2008 - 8:30pm.... I might be able to get the punch line!
The Canaanite's Call
Well if you'd
Submitted by security_six on Wed, 01/02/2008 - 8:34pm.Google unfamiliar terms now and then... Plus I already commented in Sarah's open thread about using Lynx and even made a blog posting about how much fun Olyblog navigation was with Lynx. Anyway suggest downloading it yourself and playing around. I'm still getting used to it...
My results:
Submitted by Phil Owen on Wed, 01/02/2008 - 8:20pm."Your data suggest a moderate automatic preference for European American compared to African American."
See? Not so difficult to admit. A little embarrassment at first, but no lasting pain. Just a whole lot of work to do.
The Canaanite's Call
Same for me, Phil
Submitted by jlw on Wed, 01/02/2008 - 8:48pm.This world's crazy, give me the gun. -- P.J. Harvey
My Analysis
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Wed, 01/02/2008 - 9:24pm.Your Result
Your data suggest a moderate automatic preference for European American compared to African American.
Just out of curiosity
Submitted by security_six on Wed, 01/02/2008 - 9:55pm.The question is
Submitted by security_six on Wed, 01/02/2008 - 10:36pm.That's just the point.
Submitted by Phil Owen on Wed, 01/02/2008 - 11:01pm.[Edit: S6 edited this line from his second post, thinking the second post to be duplicative. It's a valuable thought though, so I'll retain it.] "I believe if a person has to take a test of all things to determine if they harbor subtle forms of racism, then they truly have no idea if they are a racist or not."
There is a great deal that we don't know about ourselves. A whole lot of conditioning that sits right under the surface, that we generally are unaware of. Tests like this are for helping us discover the things we can't see about ourselves, things that may be apparent to others but not to ourselves.
There's nothing particularly crazy about that. It is not uncommon that I will be surprised to find that I've offended or angered someone, quite unintentionally. Sometimes I really can't tell when I'm being a jerk or being unfair. So I look for an outside perspective, and ask my wife. Trust me, she's really good at providing perspective.
This kind of test is really just the same thing, a way of providing perspective. I can't always tell if I've been fair, been sensitive, or been way off the mark when interacting with people who have different backgrounds than myself. This test gives me a good sense of my own bias, so that I can be aware and be a better person. That's all.
One last thing. Be mindful of your own certitude, as well as of others who are unshakably certain about anything. Certainty is not a bad detector for fallacy.
The Canaanite's Call
Well...
Submitted by security_six on Wed, 01/02/2008 - 11:37pm.A lot of conditioning also has to do with self preservation, or what people percive as a threat.
Consider seeing a group of loud people, wearing baggy clothes, shuffling down a sidewalk, and acting outside of your social norm. I have seen white and black people acting this way, and I tend to avoid those groups. Why? Because some instinct tells me loud unruly groups outside of my social group could be trouble. Am I correct? Am I racist? Or am I avoiding something that does not fit my group?
Consider if you saw me walking down the street openly wearing my sidearm and drinking tea. What is your reaction? My experience is that people make several different choices, some ignore it, some assume I must be a cop or security (after all "normal people" don't wear guns right?) they may consider my actions and view me as not threat, they may react on their beliefs anything outside of their norm is a threat, they may assume that since I am acting in this manner I must have every right to do so, or they go screaming to the police to protect them from the horrible armed tea drinker.
I don't think a test will show you if you have a subtle distinction between how armed people may or may not be a threat, anymore than if you have a subtle bias towards on race or another. This is something that you must answer out of your heart and your past experiences, coupled with your own worldview. A person who was mugged by a gang of will view those people differently than those who have not. Those with higher education will interact with races differently. I react with people based on outward action, and how I feel they will interact with me.
For instance every Monday I see a number of people who have been released from a local correctional facility (Shelton I think) at the Olympia Transit Center waiting for a bus to Lakewood. Sometimes I take that bus. These people range from bleary eyed former drug addicts who can barely communicate, to people who seem "normal" I avoid them all, regardless of race. Why? Because as a group, I do not wish to interact with them. Experience has shown me they are a less desireable group to interact with than others.
Ultimately, like seeks like. This to me is not wrong, but natural. Race, sex, creed, sexual orientation, these are not things in and of themselves that justify discrimination. I have a bias against those I cannot effectively communicate with, against those who have chosen lifestyles that strongly clash with mine, or with those who I feel based on outward actions or recent past history may be undesriable to associate with.
Action is the deciding factor. Some may not choose to associate with me because I am wearing a gun. I may choose not to associate with a person of color because they just got out of jail. I may choose not to associate with a white male because he is a drug addict.
I feel it is okay to have preferences in dealing with people. If you are a car dealer and an unwashed person with dirty clothes walks in at the same time someone in a three piece suit does, who will you talk to? Guess what, you just practiced economic discrimination. Was it wrong? To me no, because the choice was the one most likely on past experience to make a sale.
All people are created equal. They may not remain equal as they make life choices. All have basic fundemental human rights though that MUST be respected at all times.
That is to me is the balance point. If you respect human and civil liberties regardless of race, creed, etc... or if you would deny any of those liberties.
So the question is not, if you have a preference for one group or another, but if you would deny anyone civil and human rights.
did you take the test
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 01/02/2008 - 11:39pm.did you not read
Submitted by security_six on Wed, 01/02/2008 - 11:44pm.So now unless I take a test that I feel is pointless, I have no right to say WHY I feel it's pointless?
you are prejudiced!
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 01/02/2008 - 11:46pm.Well clearly
Submitted by security_six on Wed, 01/02/2008 - 11:50pm.Can I get a lawsuit out of this? :-)
blood from stone, friend
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 01/02/2008 - 11:59pm.Bias plays a part.
Submitted by Phil Owen on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 6:32pm.A lot of the concerns that you brought up about clothes, body language, style, behavior, etc are not factors in the test. It really does just narrow it down to race.
As far as whether implicit bias has an effect on behavior... well, it certainly does. This does not mean that if you have a bias you have to act on it, but understanding the bias will help prevent (or promote, depending on your rational preference) its affect.
There's a great deal of research out there showing how blacks pay more for cars, get paid less tips, and generally get the economic shaft - purely as a result of social bias. Experiments measuring the affect of bias have been conducted, carefully controlling for clothing/presentation, background, education, etc. I'll be posting some of this research in the coming weeks.
Guglielmo said this test doesn't measure racism; it measures implicit bias. He's right, I exaggerated the headline on this post. Having bias does not mean that your rational or conscious beliefs are racist. A person can, and a whole lot do, have very strong beliefs against racism and also an unconscious bias against people of color. It's important to know specifically because of our rational beliefs against racism. We may not notice the affects of our bias, but I can promise you that the people affected by our bias do notice.
The Canaanite's Call
Anyone who pays too much for a car
Submitted by security_six on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 6:36pm.Actually,
Submitted by Phil Owen on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 6:52pm.I'm referring more to well controlled behavioral experiments here than I am to the gathering of statistical information from normal economic exchanges. The interesting thing about the research is that most people don't know when they are acting based on color.
I'll post the research later.
The Canaanite's Call
my results
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 01/02/2008 - 10:52pm.Regardless of my results, while taking the test I couldn't help but feel that it was just tricking my brain by switching around the choices. I feel like I guessed wrong on some of them because I wasn't quite straight on what side an answer was on, I'm not sure what this has to do with bias.
My result
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 7:51am.I'm among the 17% that have "little to no preference"
Boy is S6 defensive or what?
Submitted by Mike on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 9:06am.Your data suggest a slight automatic preference for African American compared to European American.
Was your headline
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 9:20am.I'll take the test, but before I do I'll admit that when it comes to women I'm physically attracted to Caucasians and Hispanics, sometimes Asians, rarely African-American though it's been known to happen. Does that make me racist?
lol
Submitted by Norm on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 6:31pm.Headline was unnecessary,
Submitted by Mike on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 11:49pm.but I pasted from the website to save the keystrokes and that's what I got.
As to the racist question, I think that bias and prejudice, particularly bias and prejudice which we don't recognize in ourselves, is what makes a person a racist.
Physical attraction is a whole different realm imho though bias and prejudice can probably influence attraction. I would point out that many slave owners engaged in intimate relations with their slaves, kind of suggests that physical attraction and racism are not necessarily incompatible.
I would have to go through
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Fri, 01/04/2008 - 9:31am.This anonymous clan of slack-jawed troglodytes has cost me the election, and yet if I were to have them killed, I would be the one to go to jail. That's democracy for you.
C. Montgomery Burns
Ditto Merwyn.
Submitted by Phil Owen on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 6:20pm.Please don't be a jerk on my threads, Mike.
The Canaanite's Call
I honestly need more detail
Submitted by Mike on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 11:53pm.Annoyed actually
Submitted by security_six on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 6:23pm.Tenured with too much time on his hands?
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 6:41pm.I was
Submitted by security_six on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 6:43pm.You are free to think whatever you wish about the test
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 6:46pm.Can I get a grant
Submitted by security_six on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 6:48pm.Are you suggesting that
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 6:50pm.I want an answer...
Submitted by Phil Owen on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 6:54pm.... to that one, as well as why my socks get holes so damned quick.
The Canaanite's Call
This does no measure racism
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 9:39am.It quickly got out of hand
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 9:45am.Also, it designates "bad words" with Whites and "good words" with African-Americans; it's starting out already heavily biased.
When I hit the "left button" five times in a row, quickly, and then accidentally hit it for a sixth when I didn't mean to, that doesn't prove or disprove bias in anyway.
"Didn't mean to"
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 9:55am.It had nothing to do with
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 9:58am.This anonymous clan of slack-jawed troglodytes has cost me the election, and yet if I were to have them killed, I would be the one to go to jail. That's democracy for you.
C. Montgomery Burns
I felt the same as merwyn
Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 10:13am.No, you guys don't get it
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 10:26am.but,
Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 10:34am.Maybe someone who does their
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 10:39am.It's no different than batting. You're supposed to swing at the good pitches, and let the bad pitches go by for a ball. The pitches are over 90 mph. The pitching machine shoots you five good ones that you connect with, the sixth one was a little high and you missed. You swung even though the ball was out of the strike zone.
Even if you were conditioned prior to the game that strike-zone pitches were White and Balls were Black your swinging wouldn't have proven any bias.
I don't like that analogy.
Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 11:02am.No it's not off topic,
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 11:07am.The whole point was if you're moving quickly by rote you're going to do something without thinking, and it has nothing to do with a bias on any issue. This same test could be used to "prove" Mac vs. PC biases.
"without thinking"
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 11:12am.So, if I'm walking down the
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 11:16am.Hey, you don't need to acknowledge implicit bias
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 11:26am.Actually I've acknowledged
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 11:35am.Now that the serious paragraph is out of the way I can point out, after you mentioned Harvard and UW, that I have an explicit bias against those two schools. Cougs and Trees do it for me.
This anonymous clan of slack-jawed troglodytes has cost me the election, and yet if I were to have them killed, I would be the one to go to jail. That's democracy for you.
C. Montgomery Burns
About methodology.
Submitted by Phil Owen on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 6:11pm.Most of the questions asked about order of questioning, left/right handed, etc and their affects on the accuracy of the test have answers that can be found on the FAQ page for Project Implicit.
The Canaanite's Call
Pete Rose used to say
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 8:27pm.that he swung at more bad pitches than good, because that is what was thrown to him. He wanted to hit the ball, not walk.
Look how well he's doing now.
Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 8:41pm.I'm not trying to argue that
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 10:27am.I just think this particular test isn't accurate in how it determines and scores bias. It depends on people's physical reflexes and the inertia of their clickety-clacking to achieve the results, after which people claim that it was our unconscious decision to think of one race as bad.
Sorry Merwyn
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 10:30am.If speed didn't matter
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 10:47am.I type 80+ words a minute. I can go faster but usahidly id s lokk s this.
Meanwhile if you connect me to a truth serum iv, have electrodes reading my pulse and brainwaves, and then put me in situations such as comparing black men in hoodies with white men in hoodies, or listening to audio of a speech in Queens English vs. the same speech in Ebonics, you'll get a more accurate idea of any bias I have.
Didn't we take this same test
Submitted by Norm on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 1:30pm.Yes, I posted a link a few months ago
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 1:33pm.I feel
Submitted by Norm on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 1:35pm.Oh, absolutely
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 1:45pm.There are a lot of unconscious processes...
Submitted by Rick on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 1:58pm....none of which have anything to do with a particular individual's bias, that could (and I would argue, do) cause this pattern of results. For example, priming, a well-known phenomenon related to the way that the mind represents language, could cause this effect. In short, there are strong associations between certain pairs of words. These associations have to do with the frequency of their coocurrance in the language -- NOT with any particular person's beliefs. I think the test is tapping into this mechanism, and not implicit attitudes. This is supported by the finding that prominent African American civil rights activists have been shown to score with preferences for European Americans -- a finding which I find dubious.
> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract
I don't know...
Submitted by Phil Owen on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 6:19pm.A lot of activists use the term "internalized oppression" to describe something that could be similar to implicit attitudes in oppressed populations.
I've been homeless, and I work with the homeless now, and I generally consider myself to be an anti-poverty activist. But I'd be lying if I was to tell you that I don't have subtle attitudes that I still need to work on.
You may be right about mixing up priming for implicit attitudes. But priming affects behavior as well. Either way, I think the test results should be taken seriously in terms of self-understanding and awareness of the way relate to people of color.
The Canaanite's Call
Absolutely.
Submitted by Rick on Fri, 01/04/2008 - 10:11am.I wouldn't call it internalized oppression, because it isn't really a measure of attitudes or intentions (implicit or otherwise), but rather a striking bit of evidence about the continued presence of racism at a cultural level. Everyone has had that experience of having some inappropriate racist/sexist/aggressive thought pop into their head -- followed by the thought: "Where the hell did that come from? I don't really think that." Well, there's a lot of stuff going on under the hood that never reaches awareness (such as priming). These processes can absolutely influence behavior (as shown by the differences in reaction times in the study), but still not be a good indicator about the beliefs and values of a particular individual.
I think the message from this study is that the present state of cultural bias is still strong enough that it is evident in the way language is represented in the brain.
> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract