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Submitted by Mike on Thu, 11/08/2007 - 9:12pm.
Nov 8 2007 - 8:00pm
Nov 9 2007 - 3:30pm

Tank manThe military ship left the port earlier today, but the military equipment is expected to continue moving through our community through most of the night and early Friday morning.

A continuing rally and containment action for the Port of Olympia is expected to resume on at 8 pm Thursday. Persons interested in assembling to express opposition to the use of the Olympia Port as a cog in US militarism are encouraged to gather near the Port in the area of State and Plum Street.

An organizational meeting occurred earlier this evening at the Olympia Free School and there should be street medics, legal support, and copwatch in the area. A phone tree for support is set up with Laurain and a friend taking numbers, documenting a timeline, and rallying folks as rallying is needed. To become a part of the phone tree or to report items for the timeline, call 753-9771.


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Photo

To compare yourself to the brave people of Bejjing insults them. Throwing garbage in the road in front of men doing a job and spitting on local police officers is far from risking your life fighting a dictatorship. It is very easy to do what you are doing safely sitting in Olympia then laughing about it the next morning as you trade "war" stories with your buddies over a nice hot coffee in a comfy little coffee shop.
»

You know,

I don't always agree with the tactics of every protester everywhere either, but as long as what they're doing doesn't hurt me then oh well. If you were to criticize and then suggest an alternative, or suggest ways their current actions could be made more productive in your opinion, that would be pretty cool. You probably don't care, but nobody who attends these protests are going to pay any attention to this kind of commentary, and why should they? They get enough of it as it is.
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Photo

I can understand that, I should have suggested a few things. They do have alternate methods of getting a point across though, most of them involve not breaking the law. Also, it is hard to imagine them hearing much criticism when the circles that they run in tend to be pretty insulated. I would be careful about the "it doesn't hurt me attitude" as well. Every time that people conduct themselves the way these folks have it really hurts us all and really marginalizes the message they are trying to send. As a life long resident of Olympia I have noticed a huge change in the last decade in the way the activist community conducts itself. Instead of the well thought out arguements and the pleasent people it has turned to militancy and vandalism that has made our local political scene into a joke. So I am not really feeling very sorry for the oh so tough criticism they may hear, must be rough though, listening to people that diagree with them as they throw things, vandalize vehicles, spit on our local officials, paint buildings, block roads (many of the people they block agree with them yet still need to get to the store),and monopolize council time with silly and unproductive manifestos. So no tears will be shed here for the tough hand that they have drawn. I love it when I do see peaceful and well thought out protests, it is refreshing. If someone feels they need to break the law to get a point across that is fine as well, just dont bitch when you... 1) Get arrested for breaking a law 2) Get a nightstick upside the head after launching a snotball at an officer 3) Pay a fine 4) Get mildly rebuked by fellow community members
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Why...

Why is it the responsibility of the community to offer alternative suggestions on ways to demonstrate against the military, to demand that our port be no way involved in supporting our military, and that the protesters themselves obey the law? Most if not all of the protesters are adults. Do they really need other people to tell them not to spit at cops? Is that the sort of people we are dealing with, that they don't know better? Why do the liberal protesters think that they can demand that other community members show them how to protest? It is not rational to demand that someone else tell you how to obey the law. Is that the community’s responsibility? Or is it the obligation of the protesters to have a complete understanding of what they are protesting, who it affects, and the knock on effect of their behavior. I say it is the latter. It is the obligation of the protesters to obey the law, take responsibility for their actions and behave in a manner that is mature and respectful. What protesters and those who support them find here at Olyblog.net is that there are members of this community that feel it is ok to do as they, the protesters see fit. They feel that this includes vandalism, and if we the community are unable or unwilling to offer a different solution to their problems, they can do as they please. This is not mature, responsible, and the Olympia community should denounce such actions. No one needs to offer different alternatives. It is incumbent on the protesters to figure that out for themselves. I also believe that it is the responsibility of the community as a whole to denounce and rebuke people who excuse the behavior of the protesters. Vandalism is not a cost of doing business. It is crime, and should be treated as such. Those who commit the crime should be held to account for committing the crime. Spit on a police officer, you should be held to account for battery on a law enforcement officer. People who support or excuse this behavior should not be permitted to do so with out someone rebutting the behavior. C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

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This happens in free, open, democratic societies

The most orderly and law-abiding people in the world live under tyrants. Think about it and count your blessings.
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Count my blessings...

That there are people who will vandalize a business (not connected to the military or the port as far as I know) to protest our military? Count my blessings that people will spit on police officers to protest our military? Really? Count my blessings for that? C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

Sorry that's all you can see

Pretty stark view of things. Guess you're more of a "trains-run-on-time kind" of guy. For me, I see a society that is able to deal with its internal conflicts without brutal oppression. There are few vandals in Burma.
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Brutal oppression?

Really? Brutal oppression? Here is an idea, don't spit on cops. Don't vandalize other peoples property. You want to dress in black and protest the war? Go to it. Stand on the bridge to protest, go for it. Maybe you need to take a page of protest 'etiquette' from the pro life movement who managed to protest for 40 days with out vandalizing anything or spitting on anyone. C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

Holy smokes! talk about cognitive dissonance

You bemoan the tactics of anti-war protestors and laud the peaceful tactics of some pro-lifers. Antiwar=vandalism and prolife=peace. How many anti-war protestors were committing vandalism or spitting? Do you know? One? two? five? Out of how many protestors total? And you dare to characterize them all as vandals. Why are you unable to invoke the bad-apple defense now? Just because some prolifers blow up clinics and shoot doctors doesn't mean all prolifers are violent. Just because some prolifers intimidate women seeking services doesn't mean all prolifers are thugs. Give me a blessed break. This is an anti-war protest, and a few people among many may be misbehaving. Characterize it as you will, but the reality won't change.

I respect the peaceful nature of the pro-life vigil folks. It appears they learned something from the peaceful vigils at Legion and Capitol every Wednesday since the beginning of the war, the vigils of the women in black, and the many other peaceful vigils and marches held in our community.

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I never ...

Denied that there are 'peaceful' protesters. I challenge the common sense of what they are protesting. Namely our military. The men and women who are our neighbors, friends, and family. Yes I am calling on those who broke the law to be held to account for their behavior. Not only that I am calling on people in our community to refuse to accept this type of protesting. You specifically excuse vandalism while trying to pretend it is a 'cost of doing business'. That is bogus and you know it. I pointed out the folks at the Planned Parenthood because it was a hyper local example of how to behave like a mature responsible adults. A few people got arrested, but I don't believe for a moment that many more of the protesters were breaking the law in their protest. Because the police did not cite or arrest them doesn't mean they were not breaking the law. The protesters and those who support them should be held to account either in court or in the court of public opinion. They should be challenged, rebutted and their beliefs like "it's a cost of doing business" should be rejected. Cognitive dissonance... please. C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

Context matters

Tagging is a cost of doing business. That's simply a matter of fact. Shoplifting is a cost of doing business. Do you deny this? Does my recognition of this economic fact mean that I think shoplifting and vandalism are good? Surely you are not capable of such a logical contortion. You want to frame the anti-war debate around lawlessness. Good luck to you, but don’t put words in my mouth bucko.
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Do I deny it? No...

But you are convoluting your previous position from, it is acceptable to have people do this, to it is a lamentable fact that people do this. You are trying to alter your position on the matter, and again it’s bogus. Yes shoplifting and vandalism are economic fact. They would be less so if people were far less tolerant of these and other similarly illegal protest behavior. Wouldn’t you agree? As for framing the anti war debate around lawlessness, well if the protesters were not breaking the law by pedestrian interference, trying to impede the military, and spitting on cops as well as vandalizing other peoples property, I would not frame it as such. Until they change their behavior, I will continue to call the PMR loons as law breaking protesters who should be socially rejected for that very behavior. C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

lawlessness

Just out of curiosity, Tschida, I'm going to ask a thought experiment of you: Let's all find ourselves in your described utopia within the same capitalist confines we currently operate.

(Shoplifting and vandalism) would be less (of an economic fact) if people were far less tolerant of these and other similarly illegal protest behavior.

We wake up today and the community of "vandals" and shoplifters has seen the light thanks to the pressure of their community, these behaviors are bad and they don't want to be bad people doing bad things so, they stop. Six months later we receive a strange report: Master Lock reports a need to lay off 1000 workers and shut down a lock making factory. One year later stores throughout the country begin scaling down security personnel citing "no further need" for the position. Safe makers begin shutting their doors later that year. Suddenly the country is in the midst of an economic crisis later known as the "lawful years" as it becomes apparent just how large an industry it is that relies upon petty theft and "vandalism."

Like it or not the system and state of affairs you so vigorously espouse as morally right has as its end result a thriving prison system and large sectors of its economy beholden to larceny.

I can't believe you want people to lose their jobs, Tschida. Why do you want people to go hungry? What's with that? Why do you hate America?

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Wow

You should be a lawyer.

Damn the United States! I wish I may never hear of the United States again!
Philip Nolan, the man without a country

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Or work for the ACLU.

Or work for the ACLU.

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So you bought the liberal line hook line and sinker eh?

Hmm, more money becasue I don't have to buy paint and locks and security measures. So that must mean more money to do that expansion of my business, or take that vacation (employing people to do so) or remodel my kitchen utilizing all green methods or buy that new hybrid car. Why don't you want people to remodel and save energy, or buy that hybrid car thus saving the environment one step further. Don't you care about employing people, or saving the envrionment? algore would be ashamed of you. C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

oh my gawd, would you look at that elephant?!

You're wasting your keystrokes with that liberal slant.

Please answer a few questions for me (don't worry, I already know the answers): 1) With our current system does larceny exist? 2) Are there companies dependant upon it for their existence (e.g. security camera manufacturers, locksmiths, insurance)? 3) Would replacement inventories be created? (I don't know the answer to these next ones) 4) How many jobs are created by the production of one television? 5) 10 t.v.s? 6) 100? 7) 1000? 8) How many television are stolen from sales centers every year? 9) How many computers? 10) How many video games? Hell, I wonder 11) how many hours of television are seen on the stolen ones, how many commercials are seen and how much product has been sold due to the thief/beneficiary seeing those commercials? In the end the amount of industry created by theft becomes a little overwhelming to comprehend. But where does that then go? As the larceny resultant industry is itself a major supplier of disposable income, where would the resultant jobs go? "Honest" jobs aren't going to have the same level of income, so the desired business expansion or home greening is going to be effected like the ripples of a pond, which is to say, it would still be a desire. I still can't get over you hating America.

Re: your newspeak, I'm going to use that sweet little absence of evidence trick. OlyBlog has historical record of you misrepresenting what people have said. If you've done it once, then there must be more times and we just haven't found them yet.

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tired, so tired

challenge the common sense of what they are protesting. Namely our military.

I agree. It isn't common sense, it's extraordinarily excellent sense for the people of our country who oppose this war to try to stop the machine at home.

Not only that I am calling on people in our community to refuse to accept this type of protesting.

If you would show up for awhile to actually get some first hand accounts one of the things you would find is some divisiveness in the community regarding just this sort of behavior. You'd also find people within the community giving megaphone public reminders to not do things like throw trash cans into the street. Or you can continue to throw around uninformed rhetoric thus further cementing your place as a newspeak mouthpiece.

Because the police did not cite or arrest them doesn't mean they were not breaking the law.

Once again your ability to jump to conclusions based on illogical assumptions makes your constant trumping of rational conversation a joke. Repeat after me: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

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So...

In an attempt to stop the 'war machine' at home, it is permissible to prevent repair and refurbishment of the equipment that is needed on the battle field? Yeah, that supports the troops. You say it is excellent sense. If that was true, then why is it such a crime that when the war started we had to use some vehicles that did not have the armor needed? The protesters cried that we were sending our troops with out the proper equipment, and that was yet another reason to bring them home. But now, the protesters are willing to interfere with our troops getting their equipment refurbished and back to them to protect them and to continue pushing the decline in violence and death? Is that the 'excellence sense' you are referring to? So tell me again how not acknowledging that the protesters, as they were breaking the law were sure to pick up their trash, is evidence of an uninformed opinion? Lastly, you said, "cementing your place as a newspeak mouthpiece." I would love to hear this explained. C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

uh...

In an attempt to stop the 'war machine' at home, it is permissible to prevent repair and refurbishment of the equipment that is needed on the battle field?

Yes.

If that was true, then why is it such a crime that when the war started we had to use some vehicles that did not have the armor needed?

Because the war itself is a crime. If you forced people to carry out life threatening criminal activities without life preserving mechanisms in place, would that make the crime you're committing better/worse/same as before?

But now, the protesters are willing to interfere with our troops getting their equipment refurbished and back to them to protect them and to continue pushing the decline in violence and death? Is that the 'excellence sense' you are referring to?

Way to frame the question (coughnewspeakcough). How about this way: Our military, charged with protecting the lives of its soldiers, knows the Port of Olympia cannot be used without resistance by the local populace. By choosing this port it has willingly taken on the possibility of slowing the supply chain, thus further depriving the soldiers refurbished equipment. Why does our military willingly send down an order that has negative repercussions for the troops abroad? I find the sense excellent because this action of local port resistance brings about these sorts of questions.

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Frame the question?

You mean in a context that makes sense, and you don't like? That framing? The military has the right to move about our nation as it needs unless it is quartering troops in peoples homes. Seems I read that somewhere. Further the framing of my question was to implicitly demonstrate your sophomoric hypocrisy. Lastly, it seems to me that congress approved the president’s use of power. So how EXACTLY is the war illegal? How does that tin foil hat fit? C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

There are few vandals in

There are few vandals in Singapore too. Michael Fay found out why.

Damn the United States! I wish I may never hear of the United States again!
Philip Nolan, the man without a country

»

I neve said it is acceptable

I said "I only get bothered when someone's house or car is tagged. Everything else, it's just the cost of doing business in my view." A cost of doing busines...like shoplifting. Does that mean I find shop lifting acceptable. No. Same with tagging. I just don't get my shorts all up in a knot about it like some folks do. I'll say it one last time, please don't put words in my mouth.
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Right you never said that explicitly, nor did I say you did.

No one is putting words in your mouth. I am only holding you to what you said earlier. Again, you are trying to change your position from it’s a cost of doing business to 'I don't get my shorts in a knot'. Again I did not put words in your mouth. It should be absolutely unacceptable under any circumstance to deliberately vandalize someone else's property. If EVERYONE stood up for this vandalism would be reduced by a ton. But well, if it is just a cost of doing business, and most people are not going to 'get their shorts in an knot' why not do it. There will not be anyone willing to hold me to account, right? Unless I am caught red handed, public opinion is that often times the vandalism is 'art', right? C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

I know you are not stupid

First you DID say I found vandalism to be acceptable. Your own words a couple posts ago: "But you are convoluting your previous position from, it is acceptable to have people do this..." Secondly, tagging is a cost of doing business that I don't get my short in a knot about. I've always maintinaed that. It's not a change in position, they are the same thing to me. I'll get riled up about tagging when you get riled up about Iraq, okay.
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Let me clarify.

You did not explicitly say it was acceptable. You were implying it was ok and just a cost of doing business. Sorry I was not crystal clear. C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

Never

have I implied that I thought tagging was ok. Good Lord you are are a victim of your own fiction.
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That sounds like gangsta rap

"You better stop that snitchin,

Or ya gonna be a victim of ya own fiction,

just keep yo mouth SHUT Yo!"

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This happens to me, where

This happens to me, where someone believes I'm implying something when that was never my intent. If it was me I'd chalk it up to a misunderstanding and move on.

Either that or I'd get pissy and post about it, depending on my mood.

Damn the United States! I wish I may never hear of the United States again!
Philip Nolan, the man without a country

»

In most cases I would agree with you

but in this case it's not a misunderstanding. Tsch is "misunderstanding" for rhetorical purposes. I'll imagined an ignore button and click it.
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No, not really.

Not a victim. Not fooled by your denials. C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

there it is!

You pesky evidence of absence!, you're just lurking everywhere!

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??

Was there really a discussion on "is stealing, vandalism, and assualt right?" God help us in Olympia!
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No there wasn't

All you need to do is read the thread to find out. Otherwise all you have left is you projection of what took place.
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