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Submitted by gshafer5571 on Mon, 07/03/2006 - 9:44pm.
I recently visited Ralph's Thriftway.  I am a supporter for the Stormans' stand against the Plan B pill.  I will be doing most of my shopping at the store for the next several weeks.  During my recent visit I wanted to update all of you that are no longer showing up at the store.  The store seems to be doing fine.  The last two times I have been in there the parking lot was packed and the store was extremely busy.  I can't honostly say what their financial status is since the boycott has begun but by my observation nothing has changed except some new faces.  I wanted to congradulate anybody that is reading this that is supporting Ralph's during this period.  By what I see the store will not be hurt financially whatsover and profits may even increase.  Keep up the good work.
»

That's not what I heard

I heard the place was deserted, and the cars in the parking lot have certainly been sparse.  But you just keep on shopping there, if your desire to prevent women from having to access to contraception is strong enough to pay Ralph's ridiculous markup.  Personally, boycotting Ralph's has been the best thing that ever happened to my budget.  Now that I'm shopping at the Co-op and Fred Meyer, I'm saving a lot of money.
»

I didn't question

 really whether or not they would be hurt financially. I don't think we'll have that much of an impact. I actually shopped there though to try and help the little guy who owned smaller local businesses and now I just don't feel inclined to shop there. I never wanted the guy to go out of business, I just wonder if the folks inside wonder where I went to? Also, do you think it's busy because of all of the attention the store is getting lately? Do you think they'll still be that busy months from now? How many of us that aren't shopping there now are going to continue not shopping there? Sometimes it takes awhile to record financial impacts, judging simply on weeks ( particularly during a hot summer ) may not be the best bet in this scenario.
»

Gary, I'm curious

you don't state why in your post...why do you support the Storman's stand? 
»

Yeah, Gary, please tell us why you support this--

Say for instance, if you are a woman (but you are not), but anyways, say you are, and you get assaulted and genetic material is inside you--are you OK with letting that genetic material start what is basically an unplanned preganacy?

That is what you expect these females to do--

Don't you have any respect for a woman'r right to chose?

Do you also support other causes that take away a woman's right to choose? Like female circumcison? Yeah, Gary, where are you at?
»

Hmmm

I actually have a problem with this one Chad. If a woman is assaulted they need to be talking with the police and/or going to the emergency room. Ralph's thriftway pharmacy is not the appropriate venture for dealing with something like this. If people use Plan B as a way to keep a rape under wraps and not report it, then it is serving the wrong purpose and that needs to be addressed.

Let's not get on the topic of circumcision, that's a whole different can of worms. Male and Female both.

»

I didn't hear Chad saying to not report it...

...or to avoid the emergency room. In fact, it might be the emergency room doc that prescribes the plan-b, at which point a woman would need to have that prescription filled. But, alas, not at Ralph's. Yet...
»

Assault is a tricky issue

There may be cases where a woman is forced to have sex, yet she doesn't want to expose herself to the indignities of the process of reporting an assault.  There are a lot of gray areas.  What about a woman whose drunken husband forces himself on her?  Should she go to the hospital?  Call the police?  What about a woman whose ex-boyfriend forces himself on her, and she capitulates after a certain amount of coercion because she'd rather give in than be injured?  What about a woman who gets intoxicated and ends up having sex without really consciously deciding to?   In such cases, a woman might prefer not to go the hospital route, but to keep quiet, and taken the morning after pill. 
»

yes, what she said

You describe a situation so common today.  And what you are saying is that there are avenues to persue other than going to the law for a variety of reasons.  Plan-B leaves this option available.  But I'm all for leaving reproductive power in the hands of women.  The specific situation you describe is very common.  Not every act of non-consensual sex needs to end with a charge of rape. 

"I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
»

Am I missing something...

...or wouldn't a woman who was assaulted have to have her perscription filled at a pharmacy in either case (reported or not)? An emergency room wouldn't just hand out that kind of thing, would it?
»

I would hope so

The last time I was at the ER they gave me the medication I needed. In a case like this I'm assuming they wouldn't send you to ralph's. There's an inpatient pharmacy there for a reason.
»

Ah, of course...

...the pharmacy at St. Pete's. We have one at GHC. I should have thought of that. Does the one at St. Pete's carry Plan B?
»

Ok, just to start off

I am not trying to sound like an ass in this post.  I understand what you all are saying, and the point of view that you are coming from. I cannot even begin to explain how wrong I think it is though. Not reporting this behavior simply let's that that boyfriend keep on doing this to another woman. You all made my point though. These are all things that should be reported. Having plan B available may very well make this kind of behavior become less and less reported. Are we making things worse here? Ok a woman gets drunk and has sex when she shouldn't, that one I can understand and sympathize with. All of the others make me want to scream.
»

Rape is hard to prove...

... even when you have bruises.  If a woman "consented" because she was afraid her ex would hurt her, she would never get anything but grief by reporting it.  Sorry, but that's the way it is.  As for the scenario with the husband, lots of women stuck in really bad relationships endure a lot while hoping that things will improve.  If you're financially dependent on someone, and he sobers up and promises to change, it would be easy to talk oneself out of reporting a sexual assault. 
»

Sorry Norm,

but the criminal justice system doesn't work the way a lot of people think it does. Did you know that a common tactic for defense attorneys is to humiliate the victims? And to draw out trials as long as possible? And to use every horrible stereotype about rape victims possible?

For the survivor, to win in court is often a pyrrhic (sp?) victory.  And often they lose, enduring humiliation and suffering for no reason.

Deal with it man.  The world sucks sometimes.
»

Well I would hope a defense

Well I would hope a defense attorney isn't treating the alleged victim with kit gloves.

The point is to prove yourself innocent before your peers.

"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern."

»

Sure TFI, but the point of

Sure TFI, but the point of the strategy isn't to bring forward evidence. It's to wear down the witness, thereby hampering the trial.
»

I know it happens

and yes the world sucks. I know you folks though, and when something sucks you try and make it better. Shouldn't we be advocating for this instead of band-aid'ing it? I'm not saying plan B is a bad thing, I think it's a great tool and should be available. I just think we shouldn't be ok with this and just think that the world sucks. Strive for something better, y'know?
»

We need a coop pharmacy.

We need a coop pharmacy.
»

Amen. Let's bring Stan

Amen. Let's bring Stan downtown and give him his own pharmacy in a real grocery store--like the Oly Food Co-op!
»

I bet people talked about it at church

Things looked really slow at Ralph's this weekend then picked up Monday.... Maybe prayer does work??
»

Beware new Ralph's shoppers

Contained within the aisles of Ralphs are many products that "greeners" really enjoy.  Be careful of what you might purchase.  Some of these products have the power, dare I say it, to turn you into a greener.  It might be those bean sprouts, it might be the micro brews, it might be the organic free range beef, I'm not saying.  But be careful about what you purchase, you might become a greener.

"I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
»

The Point of the Protest was Choice

The women are warning each other by telephone and word of mouth and email and in churches. Don't shop at stores that disrespect women's choices, in this case Ralphs and Bayview. My own observation is that most women want to make this choice privately without involving excuses or police or the threats and prohibitions of patriarchal values, for themselves, for their daughters, as women and women guides to other women in living. I actually liked Bayview and Ralph's so I hope they straighten this out before all the women shoppers leave permanently. Women tend to not go back to places where they or their sisters have been disrespected, even if the matter is rectified later. We are most of us fussy feminists on the inside. The F bomb feminists gather on street corners. The fussy ones write and call the F bomb ones later to thank them. Others will be silent and conveniently find other places to shop. But a merchant who takes on feminists should consider merchandising and selling what men like to shop for primarily. If this lasts long, we will get other alternatives to Ralph's and Bayview springing up very shortly. Good business people see niches and fill them quickly. By the way, I like Top Foods on the West side too for some of the gourmet items. Give them your requests for anything you used to buy at Bayview and Ralph's. I am suggesting those great frozen crab cakes. ^@^
»

re: prohibitions of patriarchal values

I'll fight anyone who trys to prohibit patriarchal values. The savings in a single shopping trip alone pay for the card!
Look at the savings at the bottom of the sales slip. Last time I shopped I saved more than I spent.

Patriarchal values- never shop without them. Snub those who disparage them.
»

I suppose the Boycott supporters should just go away

I guess if things have never been better for Ralphs then we protesters and boycotters should just go away.  Clearly no one is paying any attention to us and we are probably helping Ralphs make lots of money, more than if we didn't call for the boycott.  Well, Gary, we are not going away.  We still need to educate more of the public about what is going on regarding Storman's attack on women's rights.  I suspect that you really don't know how Ralphs is doing.  If you want to shop at Ralphs, no one is stopping you.  Support Storman all you want, but in your heart you know what he is doing is wrong.

"I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
»

re: but in your heart you know what he is doing is wrong.

It is presumptive to assume what someone "knows in their heart."

Actually, the heart knows nothing. It just pumps blood.
»

According to Martin Luther King.

"the opposite of the truth is the gesture".  Storman grandstanding his religious beliefs by depriving women of their rights is nothing but a hollow gesture to appease his conservative overlords.  Anyone putting forth such a gesture knows that it is wrong.  If Mr. Storman really believed that dispensing Plan B was wrong he'd  pray about it.  He could also work for economic justice for women.  This is a hostile act against women and Storman and his followers know it is wrong.  Why they continue to perpetrate this wrong is significant and likely shows they are of little faith.

"I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
»

I understand your point

re: "the opposite of the truth is the gesture".  Storman grandstanding his religious beliefs ... is nothing but a hollow gesture to appease his conservative overlords.  Anyone putting forth such a gesture knows that it is wrong.
---

So, I know you would never grandstand your beliefs by loudly opposing the war, etc. etc. etc.
You'd simply "pray about it." If you took any other action you'd know it was wrong.

I know this is your point, because it is exactly what you've said.

I disagree, but they are your ideals. I know you'd not preach one thing and practice another. That would be hypocrisy. And we are all against that.
--

Thought does not come from the heart. The Heart only pumps blood.
I don't care if you hate. I just ask that you try to hate cogently.
--
(this is a critique of the argument BTW, not the issue.)
»

For me to do something like

For me to do something like Storman is doing regarding Plan B (vis a vis the War) I'd have to do something like not pay my taxes for the war.  I'd get out there and tell everyone I'm not paying my taxes to fund this war.  Naturally they'd throw me in jail for not paying my taxes but I'd get some press and appease my liberal overlords. Eventually I'd pay my taxes but my point would have been made.  Same with Storman, he'll be forced into compliance by the pharmacy board or he'll lose his pharmacy licence.  We'll see if it is worth it to him to lose his pharmacy licence over this issue.  Paying a small fine is one thing.  Making a gesture is one thing.  Putting your wealth on the line or your body in prison for a long time is another.  It is only a gesture if it really doesn't cost you much.  Taking this stand for Storman, like me not paying my taxes is a gesture.  Let's see what happen when it means something.  When you make gestures on issues that require otherwise, you are doing wrong.  I see this every day in my neck of the woods, a sign-on one side is the world trade center burning and the word terrorism, on the other side is an aborted fetus and the word terrorism.  Gesture, pure gesture.  I see another sign with Bush on one side and Hitler on the other side.  Gesture, pure gesture.  Abortionists are not terrorists though it makes a cool poster.  Bush is not Hitler, even though it makes a cool poster.  We get away from the gestures, we get away from the politics, maybe we can actually get somewhere.  I also will not use my religion to make political points.  Religion is typically something taken on faith, I'm not certain if one can make rational points based on something one takes on faith.  Maybe I'm wrong on this one, but how can I expect some one of a different faith to accept the faith I'm basing my decisions on.  And, for that matter, if I have true faith, is not prayer the best answer?

"I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
»

you're off the issue

As I said, saying someone "knows in his heart his actions are wrong" is -presumptuous-.
That was the only point I have been arguing. You may as well argue hard against my statement that rain is wet.

Neither of you speak for the other, do you?

Shall I call him to enquire what's in your heart?

His answer will likely be wrong.
Unless he says the heart just pumps blood, it doesn't do moralizing.

BTW, Taking a stand for what you believe is just that. He knows what he believes. You don't speak for what he thinks, believes, or is prepared to do "in his heart."  Period. 
From -you- we get what -you- believe- not -someone else's- inner thoughts.
--
I don't ask you stop hating, I just ask that you try to learn to hate cogently.
»

Why Red Letter the Women for Societal Wrongs?

We all know that many children are molested, both girls and boys. The same is true with rape and sexual victimization at any age. It leads to all kinds of problems as adults, both crime and bad choices. Why are we even asking women about their choices? Why aren't we watching our children and healing them before they finish growing, if we even suspect a crime. Heal the angry children and we heal the next generation. Just notice and learn to notice, and let some of the blame for past wrongs go. Yes we need to lock up the people that become criminals. No we don't need to blame the victims. We just perpetuate generations of wrong and damage with further wrong and damage. Let the women pray about their choices. Everyone else needs to quit making this such a painful choice and discussion for those women and men with trauma and bad memories. Some parts of living can't heal until we get angry, cry, and learn to live with the harm done to us and move on in peace and forgiveness.

Give women a choice and don't ask why they make it. Let the men talk among themselves about the hard choices faced by women family members, then, now, and what they want for their daughters. For my daughter, I choose what my mother fought to give me, the right to choose and the right to make it no one's damned business but my own. I trust my daughter with her choices. Why can't other people trust theirs? We can't be parents in charge of our children all their lives. At some point they need to choose their own values and live by them and with them. I hope she rejects a few of mine personally. Some of them were false. Some were good. Let her decide in her younger generation wisdom. Take what you like and dump the rest. Perhaps her generation will succeed with some of the peace making where mine failed or faltered or floundered. And human rights. And racism. And harm reduction. And people just plain getting along and trying to understand each other. Its better than it was in the 1950's and 1960's, but is it really anywhere near what any of us older ones wanted when we were young? I doubt it. I had a dream, many dreams, just like Martin Luthor King, and I still do. For my children and their children.

I really hope women get the equal respect and dignity they deserve within the human race and without the interrogation and red lettering. They didn't have it when I was young and working and they don't have it now. We are still arguing their broodmare status. Is it her fault? Prove it. Prove it with evidence in court. Talk about it. Be really ashamed of it. Are you sure you didn't ask to have this happen to you. What about all the women liars. Well if they won't talk don't listen. And if they have babies make sure we don't have to pay more taxes. Force them all to work. Force the fathers to pay instead of Uncle Sam. If they don't have fathers, well let them suffer in poverty and hope everything turns out OK. Make sure you send them to prison more and at younger and younger ages. Try them as adults. Build more prisons. Invent more offenses. We have a war on drugs, a war for oil, what else can we war about? Religion? I think we are doing that too. School? Where we live? Who lives beside us?

Just think about it. We need to work on a little more equality for the children too. At least in terms of basic needs. For now, give mothers and would be mothers those choices. And we ought to look toward the family values of the cave people who managed to get along together in one cave, or so I hear. They did have to spread out and get more caves. Study the old cave drawings for family values and see if we can reinvent some ones that allow us to get along better. I wonder if cave people had NIMBY and let other people sleep outside in the cold because they weren't sure if they could trust them to be good people or not. I wonder if they shared food when food was scarce or helped heal each other just because someone was hurt.

Our true and best family values may be those we had in the cave and those we still have. Same with religious. The common cultural denominators, not the isolated regional differences. Our human race is on the way to extinction, along with much of the planet, if we don't figure out how to live with each other and let each of us have choices. A few basic rules for living, but not this complicated architecture of judging everyone around us as having less choices than we would give our own children in the worst imaginable circumstances. We need to quit judging each other so harshly. Women are a good place to start. They generally represent about half of each generation in every species. Look at all their circumstances as a whole, and all the circumstances they create and must endure to have children. Quit judging and start supporting and healing.

If you really want to make this thinking hard to think about, start with the women in prisons and the women drug users. What happened to them? Were they born of bad seed? How didn't we protect them? Can we do something today that should have been done long ago? Can we help them help themselves? Women's choice over birthing is only part of it. Women's lack of choice over conception is a bigger part. Not keeping children safe or provided for is another bigger part, their children, or their lives as children and young women. I think society needs to get over it and get on with it, not just the women. We can't legislate all the wrongs in living that can happen. We can quit being so harsh.
»

Bingo, and you'll be Gary, Indiana.

"One moment please. I bring you a message. Exactly six miles north of

scag mountain, in a valley of pain, there lives an evil devil monster.

His name is Bingo, gas station, motel, cheese burger with a side of

aircraft noise, and you'll be Gary, Indiana. And he LOVES to hurt

people. The last time I saw Bingo, gas station, motel, cheese burger

with a side of aircraft noise, and you'll be Gary, Indiana, he told me

what he wants to do- he wants to come down here and kill each and every

one of you. But I said to him, Bingo, wait a minute. And the reason I

said that is because I believe in you people. I believe you can do the

job. I believe you can help each other. I believe you can make this

world a better place to live in. That's it."


- Robert Downey's "Greaser's Palace"

»

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