Rioters will not find justice as they face 10 year sentences

You get what you give. What goes around comes around. As the call, so is the echo. All these sayings come from traditional wisdom. That wisdom guides us in how we treat the people in our community. If we look at our own lives history often we can see this is true. Unfortunately the police are determined to seek retribution beyond what is fair. Unless we stop them, rationality and wisdom will be defeated by vengeance and abuse of power.

The Olympian states, “Physically damaging or disabling an emergency vehicle constitutes first-degree malicious mischief, a Class B felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison and a $20,000 fine.”

Historically, challenges to power have been met with fury and retribution in orders of magnitude larger than what could be considered fair and just. One destroyed cop car is not equal to ten years in jail served by people used as scapegoats. The police officers will receive no punishment for beating and dousing the public, yet again, with pepper spray, sending one student to the hospital with bruised ribs. Instead they will receive over time pay, which will continue to increase the costs of the incident.

The police have detectives issuing subpoenas for photos and videos taken of the riot. "We will get it," said Sheriff Dan Kimball.

Finding someone to blame is a priority for the police force. Anyone who was there knows that it is impossible to fairly blame one person or even a small group of people. How many people were shouting ‘fuck the cops’? A hundred. I stood in front of the cop car, I shouted to ‘let him go’. I stood unable to stop the increasing mayhem, provoked by the police. I watched people getting angry as their friends and community members were crying from pain.

Sheriff Dan Kimball shows himself again to be a divider in our community, promoting repression. He has proven his inability or unwillingness to bridge divides, repeatedly using excessive force on the public. This has left Olympia grumbling and cost the taxpayers in unnecessary police overtime pay. I demand his removal from office by the Olympia City Council.

Evergreen has procedures for disciplinary action, counseling services, and a community who can better creatively determine a course of justice. We are willing and capable of handling this ourselves fairly without outside interference. We even have our own competent and intelligent police force. The city cops and courts must be stonewalled.

The riot was provoked by the cops and encouraged by the majority watching. Sentencing friends to ten years in prison for something we all have accountability for is intolerable. Do not help the police in their retaliation on our community. We can stop them and we must.

Comments

yes/no

Here we are again, caught in the same yes/no trap that progressives always get caught in. When are liberals going to realize that the actions of radicals pave the way for reform to take place? No John Brown, no end to slavery. No Tea Party, no America.

The first response to this will most assuredly be "how dare you compare The Boston Tea Party with a "riot" at TESC!!". They were both acts of rebellion, acts of revolt. The police have, maybe since the beginning of police, come down hard on youth, poor people, non-whites, queer people, etc. What happened at TESC was an example of a group of people realizing they had the upper hand against the police and saying, "We aren't going to let you win this time. You will not take one of us today."

Yes, there were people who had been drinking, and people who had been smoking weed, and maybe a couple of people looking for trouble. It was also a group of people that have studied or seen first hand the way police control The People with violence in order to protect capital.

Events like this are not to be taken lightly, it would be incredibly unwise to just right this off as if they were soccer hooligans, or drunks blowing off steam. Events like this provide a spark that can ignite a movement. As a community, I believe it is in our best interests to start a conversation about the police and how they do their jobs. Now that this has happened, the police will undoubtedly ramp up their reactions to college students, especially at protests. If we want to live in the kind of society we dream of, with real freedom, and real access to community, we have to come together and support one another. We can't criticize each other and bicker because that only does our "enemy's" job for them. Everybody is needed, every idea is valuable, every tactic is a step closer to accomplishing our goals.

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I should have known this would happen.

I'm not going to tell the details of these people's situations because I don't want to give away who they are, because that could make them a bigger target.

When we read news, we decide whether we trust it or not. There is sometimes a process involved that looks at the sources of the information, and how reliable they are. In this case, I am your source. I can't "prove" what I'm saying is true without giving away identifying information. I have no motivation to make things up, that's not a game I'm into. You have the right to take me as a credible source and believe what I'm saying, or to not and don't believe me. If you choose not to, that's fine, but please don't berate me for the next two days saying that I'm a hypocrite. If you think I'm a hypocrite, then you also must think I'm a liar, and if that's the case, why would you bother?

I know one person who was subject to intimidation and harassment from the OPD (this included being pulled over regularly on their way home from work), after they realized the person was homosexual.

Another friend who grew up elsewhere noticed a difference in how they were treated almost immediately. They felt like they were being singled out due to the color of their skin, they have a sense of humor about it and often refer to it as being stopped for "black in public".

These are the accounts of two people that I know, and I will not provide anymore detail than that, for fear of giving away too much about them. I'm not going to lose any sleep if you choose not to believe me.

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Huh?

"It's only criminals and their enablers who feel the police are out of control."

I hope you are only speaking in relation to the recent events at Evergreen. Because I have misgivings about the behavior of our police force on a few occassions during the last round of port protests. I had no probelm when the police enforced the laws by arresting the women who were blocking the street or their reaction to outbreaks of violence. But I have serious problems with the level of force they used on some other passive protesters. We clearly do not agree on whether or not any police actions constituted excessive use of force that week, but I hope you are not characterizing my concerns about the 4th and 14th ammendments as "enabling." Since you are a reasonably fair person, I can only imagine you are speaking about the most recent events.

Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes

White male bashing is through the roof in this stae...

The lack of consciousness about the benefits provided by being a white male in this society is disturbing. There is a mistaken sense of entitlement and that we have worked to get where we are in this community. We have worked to get where we are compared to white males from a similar economic and cultural class, but our advantage over minorities and women are astounding and based upon no qualitative value.

If you are happy with how things are right now it is because the scope of your vision and empathy doesn't much leave your living room. You must also have little imagination for what possibilities of a better world exist.

Wake up. This is a wake up call for you and others like you who sit comfortably while many suffer. Those many will start causing you problems unless changes happen. If you want those changes to be a more tolitarian system then expect more problems. If you want changes towards a more just equitable society then watch those changes make these events go away.

I'm going to post an e-mail on my blog I sent out a while ago about some facts on prisons. Look for it.


The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com

No more comments not relevant to the original entry.

This conversation has gotten way off topic, I suggest people start a new blog entry about racial profiling somewhere else. It can be titled, "Does racial profiling exist in Olympia? One open gun carrying white man thinks not." Move it along! This is article is about justice over vengeance and the bigger subjects behind the riot. No more back and forth trying to convince someone who can find this stuff out on his own. Sorry security six, gotta stop k?

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The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com


The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com

The guy did something wrong

....he was arrested. That is the way the system works. I don't care if he's green with purple polka dots. The people who decided to "take a stand" against this police officer were wrong. I sincerely hope they get to spend 10 years in prison, and I hope that when they leave the prison system they decide to become a useful part of society. If they choose not to I'm sure there is always a home for them in WallaWalla.

Rebuttal From The "Other Side"

"Unfortunately the police are determined to seek retribution beyond what is fair. Unless we stop them, rationality and wisdom will be defeated by vengeance and abuse of power. "

Unfortunately?  I say fortunately.  An unruly mob of kids who think they are above the law destroyed government property while threatening officers of the law.  The police should be determined to seek retribution on behalf of the police department and the law abiding citizens of this great city who helped pay for the destroyed property. 

A group of individuals who believe they are above the law have no right to even try to stop them.  Do you seriously believe the police are solely seeking revenge and abusing power?  What if it was your car that was totaled while you were in class one day.  Wouldn't you want them to pursue the offenders?  Wouldn't you expect to be reimbursed?

One destroyed cop car is not equal to ten years in jail served by people used as scapegoats.

While I agree 10 years is harsh, I'm sure that's just a maximum and none of those who flagrantly broke the law will ever serve 10 years.  As for scapegoats, let's call them what they really are:  criminals, felons, and law-breakers.  They are far from "scapegoats".

The police officers will receive no punishment for beating and dousing the public, yet again, with pepper spray, sending one student to the hospital with bruised ribs. Instead they will receive over time pay, which will continue to increase the costs of the incident.

The police officers shouldn't receive any punishment for doing their jobs.  They have as much right to protect themselves as you do.  They also have as much right to use whatever force necessary to protect property and lives.  The criminals who were threatening them were lucky they only got pepper sprayed and a few bruised ribs.  I don't know why you think they'll get overtime pay but again, half of your post is baseless theories, speculation and statements without facts.

Finding someone to blame is a priority for the police force.

Because it's their JOB.  When criminals create havoc and threaten the lives of officers of the law and destroy property, it's the policemen's job to investigate, charge (blame) & arrest the offenders. 

 Anyone who was there knows that it is impossible to fairly blame one person or even a small group of people. How many people were shouting ‘fuck the cops’? A hundred.

Shouting profanity isn't a crime.  So what?  Where your buddies went wrong was threatening the officers and damaging their property and stealing belongings from the car. 

I stood unable to stop the increasing mayhem, provoked by the police. I watched people getting angry as their friends and community members were crying from pain.

What were you doing to stop the increasing mayhem that certainly was not provoked by the police.  Again, they were doing their job.  Your friends and community members wouldn't have been crying from pain had they not rioted in the first place, damaged and stole government property and threatened lives.

 Sheriff Dan Kimball shows himself again to be a divider in our community, promoting repression. He has proven his inability or unwillingness to bridge divides, repeatedly using excessive force on the public. This has left Olympia grumbling and cost the taxpayers in unnecessary police overtime pay. I demand his removal from office by the Olympia City Council.

I completely disagree.  Dan Kimball and his officers acted within the laws and did their jobs. He neither divides our community or promotes repression.  If anybody has proven their inability or unwillingness to bridge divides, it's TESC.  If you read the comments from others at The O and listen to talk radio, people have had it with TESC, it's policies, it's teachings and the shenanigans of the student body.  Most are calling for the removal of TESC completely.  Close it down, stop funding it, etc.  If you truly want to bridge divides between TESC and the community, encourage those who were responsible to come forward.  Don't post propoganda like above encouraging others to hate police and paint your college and student body as little angels who did nothing wrong.  Don't destroy our city, it's name & reputation.

Evergreen has procedures for disciplinary action, counseling services, and a community who can better creatively determine a course of justice. We are willing and capable of handling this ourselves fairly without outside interference. We even have our own competent and intelligent police force. The city cops and courts must be stonewalled.

Obviously TESC's can't provide adequate policing services and neither are they a court of law or seperate entity entitled to a private justice system.  TESC is a member of the community of Olympia which requires it and it's student body to abide by the laws of the state and community, not their own made up rules and justice.

The riot was provoked by the cops and encouraged by the majority watching.

Only TESC believes this statement.  The police did not provoke or encourage the majority.  They were doing what they could to difuse the volitale situation and protect themselves.  I haven't seen or read anywhere where they jumped on bullhorns and encouraged rioting by others either.  This is seriously a delusional statement, one without fact or basis to back it up. 

Sentencing friends to ten years in prison for something we all have accountability for is intolerable. Do not help the police in their retaliation on our community. We can stop them and we must.

Sentencing felony criminals to ten years in prison for something they have accountability for is not only tolerable, it's required.  As a law abiding citizen of Olympia, I encourage others to help the police department seek the arrest and prosecution of these criminals who destroyed property I helped pay for on a college campus I am forced to fund.  We will not allow you to stop the police and you won't.  Justice for all and all for justice.  If you don't like the laws and don't want to live in society by them, move. 

"A point of view is only a view from a point..." ~ Unknown

Law justice is not fairly possible and will cost the tax payers.

You missed my biggest point. Where do we draw the line for punishment? Two hundred people were there and taking part. Do you blame the person who threw the first plastic bottle? Do you blame the many people flipping the car but not the ones that didn't have the space to help but encouraged? What about people who jumped on the car after it was already totaled? Maybe 30-50 students threw things while 150 watched and provoked, which one or two will they pick to prosecute? The point is the police want someone they can parade in front of the media and that person or small group of people will not even bare the majority of the responsibility.

The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com

This would be a good time for the PDs

to step back and convene a meeting with the activist community to reduce tensions and to give this particular instance of mob violence a pass.  

I am not keen about this kind of activity, but I was not there, I do not know what went on.  I do believe that the activist community has significant resentment simmering against the City and various pds at this time.  

Sometimes, the smart move is to step back instead of squaring off.  

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." President Dwight D. Eisenhower April 16, 195

A few clarifications...1. A

A few clarifications...

1. A sheriff is an elected position. This is why the sheriff doesn't care what people think about him. If you don't like the way his department does business, you can vote him out in the next election.

It will still be funny when a bunch of people show up to an Olympia City Council meeting asking them to do something. It'll be even more funny if members of the council think they can.

This is also why the sheriff's department is far more likely to go out and enforce the law. With a police department, the chief has to answer to the city council and/or city manager.

2. Sheriff's Department: Deputies

Police Department: Officers

I was also present at the

I was also present at the concert and although anyone and everyone's prespective is limited to what they themselves see and their surroundings/thoughts/culture etc. I can also say from what I personally witnessed the viloence engaged by the concert goers did not surface until after the initial pepper spraying, which was a result of a crowd chanting 'let him go' as well as an occasional 'fuck the police'. I feel the whole situation could have easily avoided the escalation into what occured if the police instead of pepper spraying the chanters released the detained like they later did, they could have questioned him out of the car, if that is all they attended to do. He was standing next to me inside the CRC when the officer hand cuffed him, and did not fight (as I recall)the arrest. Upon leaving the building five to ten minutes later there was a small crowd watching as a few people sitting in front of the cop car were being pulled by their arms, legs and hair by a few police officers. There were a few officers there before the crowd even began to gather and chant. I am not condoning what happened. Nor am I taking any sides. I am just stating what I observed.

musing

Proper channels get us nowhere overall. I wish they did, but they don't and are getting worse. Welcome to the real world, where anything goes. Ultimately a man with a badge is just a man. This society has come to accept its march toward planetary death. Some haven't. An incident like this reminds people that they have power to prevent that march. It wasn't intentional it was subliminal. It was the cops acting out their accepted and boringly normal role of oppression through violence. It was students reacting in a way that the cops weren't prepared for, they fought back. Saying that there were legal avenues of action is the dope that keeps major things from happening. Hundreds of cops may beat up hundreds of people, maybe one case will be reported because everyone else assumes correctly it is pointless, that case will probably end with the cop keeping his job. I've seen it over and over. So if a case comes to resolve something where we have a leverage of power, use it, because it happens so rarely that most people think it is impossible.

The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com

Exceptions aside

Your one of the few then, the exception. You have money for lawyers and I guess time to sort it out. I would be interested in hearing how much time and money was spent for your little wins, and they are little. The means is not available to everyone. It also helps to be a white male gun advocate. I doubt you would have the same results if you were a black male that walked on that bus or in that police station with a gun.

The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com

I really dislike this

I really dislike this conversation. The first reason is I am totally for people going through proper channels to changing the law or defending their rights. If they have the tenacity, knowledge and resources they should go for it. I work through the system all the time, and have no problem with navigating through never ending bureaucracy and overcoming endless forms, meetings, procedures and blocks from people. I enjoy it.

However, I reserve the right to work for change in a more direct way, knowing that the consequences might be overwhelmingly bad. The reason is I want people who are in power who choose to not represent the interests of the public to be worried. If people in power think they can get away with murder, they will murder.

If a riot every now and then succeeds in making our public officials and our ruthless CEOs worried then I'm ok with that. If it shakes out a few concessions for a better life or makes people come together and confront the stark reality of poverty, social injustice, institutional racism, and thousands of people getting evicted from their homes by banks, then terrific.  


The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com

cool then

I can agree with you on that. I love this country, the land and the people.

The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com

Yep. A wise friend convinced me of radical necessity

some years ago. Frontiers are no place for the meek...though they inevitably inherit the benefits and convert them into something more suited to mainstream sensibilities. I think of radicals are part of a well-diversified portfolio of social activism. There are risks, but I consider them acceptable. The alternative surrenders all power to reactionaries.

Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes

Who are the officers?

 Surely you can divulge that?  I'm inclined to trust you, but sadly without any level of documentation these are valueless statements. 

Has any legal action been taken?  Incidents documented?  Officers recorded?  You do know it is legal to record a cop in this state without their knowledge or permission?  I carry a mini recorder around my neck when I am in public places and OCing now.  I am not the only one to do so.  Take a page from the gun owners and install mini cams or sound recording devices in vehicles or wear one.  

Have any complaints been made and followed up on?  Lawsuits filed?  Anything? ????

Or just people accepting what "the man" inflicts on them without fighting back?  

 

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

 

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

Well done.

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Sorry....

I already took your suggestion before you suggested it BTW.  I'm going to steal a line from you though :-) 

 

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

 

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

Turns out he was accused of

Turns out he was accused of punching a woman. Granted, innocent until proven guilty, but if it turns out he did (and can't prove obvious self-defense) is he vilified for being a man throwing his power on a woman (and you know how we don't want to scare the women away from our community) or does he get a free pass because (you guessed it) she's White and we must understand his frustrations growing up?

“I said it in Hebrew—I said it in Dutch—I said it in German and Greek: But I wholly forgot (and it vexes me much) That English is what you speak!”
The Hunting of the Snark

Red meat is NOT bad for you. Now blue-green meat, THAT'S bad for you!
Tommy Smothers

"Only TESC believes this statement. "

The Evergreen State College does not believe the cops started the violence. While I am quite certain some students, faculty, and staff hold that view, they do not represent the institution by any stretch. The Olympian commenters you allude to are making the same unfortunate mistake. Evergreen is an excellent institution with an unusually high calliber of faculty for a small, public liberal arts college.  They really do a lot more there than just turn out anarchist stormtroopers.  Sadly, people allow news stories about a few  color their opinion of everyone else at Evergreen.  We are lucky to have Evergreen. The only regret I have is they built it out in the woods instead of in town.

Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes

It is not just 'the

It is not just 'the police'.

The majority of our campus wants those responsible to be held accountable.

It was not OK for this group of people to intimidate an officer that is PART OF OUR COMMUNITY, and violate the campus social contract.

But I am Just Another Voice

But I am Just Another Voice

I really can't overstate

I really can't overstate this: when there's an increasingly agitated crowd gathering around you and you're significantly outnumbered, pepper spray is pretty low on the proverbial totem pole of defense measures.

You can't read people's minds and must assume the worst. It's saying that goes around in the military and I'm sure law enforcement: It's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.

I realize it's your account, but I've noticed this trend of "the crowd wasn't doing anything until after the police used pepper spray." Uh - hello? What are they supposed to do with an amped up crowd surrounding them? As an officer you're not out there to hold a lecture. This isn't the classroom; it's the real world. If you think an arrest or detention is unlawful, you may want to use the proper channels.

It's not even just Evergreen students who do this. Virtually every college student thinks that because they took a class that may have mentioned the legality of something, they qualify as legal representation.

In the Army they're called "Barracks Lawyers."

I have to disagree

 Using proper channels and procedures, coupled with a firm knowledge of the law (and of course in my case it really helps that I have broken no laws) have begun change within both the OPD and Intercity Transit.  I believe there are a couple of bloggers here who have participated in meetings with both agencies who can attest to that fact.

Briefly, with IT, they have gone from saying "no guns on the bus" to no "unlawfully carried guns" and are working on implementing a policy in line with state law.  Channels and procedures.

OPD, well many here know of my little adventures with them.  I can assure you, by proper channels and procedures, backed up with a bit of lawyer, and the understanding of at least one Lieutenant changes are being made with their policy as well. 

How can I walk down the street in Olympia visibly wearing a loaded handgun and not have the same problems others have with the system, when the system shows a flaw?  How can I work within the system and effect change?  

It's all in how you do it.  And being correct in the eyes of the law, courts, and constitution helps A LOT.  Systems work if you work the systems.  Every time I have had conflict with government I have used their own systems to work in my favor.  In San Diego I did little but put up a delaying action against a forgone and incorrect conclusion.  Two years later I learned some of the groundwork I helped lay resulted in justice for the displaced live aboard boaters I worked with.  

It's all in how you do things my friend, all in how you do things. 

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

$0

 One, I didn't walk into a police station wearing a gun.  I was walking down the street wearing a gun, although either action is perfectly legal and protected.  

I have spent no money on lawyers, the attorney I have right now is betting on the OPD screwing up (again) and a nice juicy lawsuit.  Everything else I have done I have argued myself.

I don't know what the reaction would be to a lawfully armed person of color peaceable open carrying.  I do know that in Virginia where this is a more common practice there have been no racist reactions to it, and that an asian gentleman I know of in this state who OCs has had no problems.

But if you want to reinforce negative stereotypes against people of color go for it.  

I hate to break it to you, but IT had no idea my race when I instituted an entirely email exchange regarding their unlawful practices.  I simply quoted state law and stuck to my guns so to speak.  Didn't take too long.  

Of course if you want to disempower yourself and refuse to believe you can work change, go for it.  Don't ruin it for everyone else though. 

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

So

If a person can't or won't work the system burn down a car? Or whatnot?

BTW, I cannot agree with you the the evictions. Regardless of how upfront or shady the loans were, everything was still in the contract people signed. If you can't or won't take the time to understand the document, don't sign it. Too many people did, and too many people failed to educate themselves before making their decisions.

EDIT:  Ya know I don't think we are really too far apart on a lot of things.  Methodolgy seems to be the biggest issue, well that and I still believe in this country...  I'm for ending this conversation after you rebut my statement if you are.  

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

And the beer

Don't forget the beer!  :-p   

 

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

 

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

Yes, life isn't as simple as you'd like it to be.

We share this world with some frustrating people...ALL of us do.

Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes

Here is the problem I see....

People got uppity over an arrest.  Without having facts in hand and jumping to wild conclusions they got upset.  That rolled downhill.  Police responded with accepted crowd contol techniques, pepper spray, etc...  

I really fail to see what the problem is.  They acted to restore public order as they have been charged to do by the community.  

Of course those who would like to see no law enforcement, or simply neutered bobbies running around with no real power complain bitterly every time any basic act of crowd control is performed.  

The only thing I can see wrong here was that there was not an adequate security force in the first place.

And please cite some documented examples of OPD coming down on minorities or queers simply because of skin color, sex, religion or sexual orientation.  Proven, documented examples that show a regular sustained pattern of behavior. 

 

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

 

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

explaining while male privilege to a white guy

who doesn't believe it exists is like trying to explain water to a fish.

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." President Dwight D. Eisenhower April 16, 195

Sorry about that, at times I tilt at windmills.

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Documented examples?

Where would I find those?

It would surprise you, some of the people I know who have been treated unfairly by the police because of their sexual orientation. Race and economic factors too. Ever had to worry about the cops coming in the middle of the night, or while you're gone, to burn or otherwise destroy your boat or any of the homes you've lived in?

image

Nope.

The San Diego Harbor Police were pretty out of control, but not a problem to anyone who followed even the most basic law. 

So again, please cite examples in Olympia of cops violating folks civil rights based on sexual orientation or color.  I assume complaints were made to the FBI? 

 

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

 

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

It's not business to out people.

If they want to come forward and tell their stories, they can. Know that I wouldn't make things up, I don't need to. There is ample proof that some cops are bad.

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Of course

I don't want you to out anyone who hasn't gone public about it.  I just expected that all these grievous insults to person and property would have been met with something other than silence.

Here is how I see it.  If you will not take legal steps to prevent abuse of power then you have nothing to bitch about.  Every single time I have felt my rights have been violated or police are acting unjustly I made myself heard.  Really had a problem twice.  Once in San Diego, and very shortly the SDHPD left me alone, the Chief and at least one Port Commissioner knew me by sight and first name.  Oh, I was working minimum wage at the time too if I was working.

Second time has been my open carry issues with the OPD.

If rights have been violated I have always found my best protection has been screaming about them at the top of my lungs to any who would listen.  Makes it very hard to retaliate when the issue has been so publicly laid bare.  Too much evidence at that point to claim retaliation and harassment.

 

 

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

 

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

That right there is an example of your privilige.

People in "minority" groups typically are not empowered to stand up for themselves. Usually laws are stacked against them. Your fight with OPD, which focuses on your already legally mandated right to carry a gun, isn't equal to a gay person who comes out and gets pulled over by the police every day, or the young person who gets his skateboard broken, or my friend who sometimes gets stopped for being "black in public", as he puts it.

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San Diego

 Don't try to be a livaboard boater in San Diego, especially a poor one.  When Iwas there, there was still a free long term anchorage.  Pass a basic safety inspection and you could stay out there indefinetly as long as you kept up the safety and seaworthiness of the boat.  The Port of San Diego, backed by marina operators, and yacht clubs worked hard to vilify those of us out in Anchorage 8.  There were a handful of bad apples, tweakers and the like, and more than a few derilict vessels due to very lax enforcement of rules.  The seemingly deliberate inactions of the Port allowing A-8 to fall into shambles was used as excuse to get rid of the "trash" and "rabble".  Just as a nice shiny new marina was going in a mile away.  One person said the marina tenants didn't want to have to look at a bunch of people anchored out and not paying anything.

 Oh did we get hassled.  Anything and everything the Port could throw at us.  Lies, half truths anything.  

I  don't have the inclination to compress two years of my work into a single topic.  When it became plain they were going to eliminate A-8 (I was already planning to leave anyway) I started putting up a fight.  I went to meetings and demanded additional mooring balls be put in and A-8ers be given priority on them.  That the Port buy out boats of people unable to get any other place.  I wasn't the only one doing this but I was one of them.  When I left they had decided to put in more balls, but not buy out anyone unable to get a slip or mooring ball.

They wound up buying out boats at the end, for very good sums of money. 

Here is an article I was interviewed in. 

Homeless people in San Diego were more "empowered" than those of us in A-8.

Everyone is empowered if they wish to be. 

 

 

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

 

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

And where does this happen Rob??

"Your fight with OPD, which focuses on your already legally mandated right to carry a gun, isn't equal to a gay person who comes out and gets pulled over by the police every day, or the young person who gets his skateboard broken, or my friend who sometimes gets stopped for being "black in public", as he puts it."

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No matter if the science is all phony, there are collateral environmental benefits.  Climate change provides the greatest chance to bring about justice and equality in the world ever.Christine Stewart (the real basis for the AGW scare)

"RITALIN, so much easier than parenting"

itchyhitch.blogspot.com

Sadly, right here in Olympia.

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Can you provide proof?

Without proof this is just hearsay and not fodder for CJ.  It is possible to describe incidents with enough detail while still protecting the alleged victim's privacy.  

 

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

 

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

I don't have permission to tell their stories.

So I won't. If you choose not to believe me, then that's OK.

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Then give some inkling of info

 Year it happend, officer(s) involved, alleged offenses, anything.  Otherwise you are simply posting rumors and heresay.  Otherwise I expect you will back down from your stance of demanding cites and criticizing posts or links that don't have enough info or cites to suit you.

Or don't bring them up since they are unprovable.  If you read today' Olympian about the witness account of the TESC riot, I heard that story straight from the witness the morning of the riot.  I didn't have her permission to tell it, so I simply refrained from mentioning it.  I encouraged her to call Jeremy Palowski or come here to Olyblog and tell it.

The point I am making is that without permission to recount the story simply saying you know of something just doesn't cut it.

 

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

 

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

Do your own homework

Dude, this happens all the time. If you are black in this town, or any town in this country, you are more likely to get hassled by the cops. Why don't you ask a black or minority friend of yours? Every black person can tell you a list of stories where the cops harassed them for being Black In Public.


The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com


The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com

Prove it.

Show me that the OPD stops more minorities for unfounded cause than other people and that it is simply for being a minority.  

The only so-called "minorities" I know you would probably consider too high up the social ladder to be a valid source.

So far all I hear are generalizations.  Remember, I'm asking about Oly here.  I don't want stories from Kalifornia or some other backwards state.  Olympia.  Olympia LEO's.  

Come on guys, I've got an open mind on this, I don't have very many friends with the OPD.  JT and I see eye to eye on most subjects and that is pretty much it for me and OPD.  

Sell me.   

 

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

 

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

Rick needs to take a step back here

I think you are getting a little carried away here wildleaf, provide some proof to back up these statements, please.

S6: That's really not for you to decide.

The commitment to intellectual honesty on OlyBlog, agreed to by all and encoded in the Social Contract, holds us all to a high standard in providing substantive and detailed support for claims made on the blog. However, there are obviously special circumstances that may make it difficult to adhere to that high standard. That doesn't mean that the information is worthless, a rumor, or not worth contributing. It just means that there is no verifiable source to attach to it.


> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract

Beware the terrible simplifiers.
Jacob Burckhardt

What's not for me to decide?

 That I find information utterly and completely without value because of a lack of even a single fact?  I can spout of claims like this all day long too if I want.  However if it is going to be held up as "proof" that OPD engages in a particular type of illegal behavior, it better have a lot more behind it than "Well it happens"  or "You know that sort of thing happens."  But if hearsay is okay for Olyblog I'll cut back on my standards of informatin.

Rob is getting it especially hard because he trys to hold others to a high standard of information accountability.  

BTW, I saw Bigfoot up in the capital forest.

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

 

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

BS!

He and I were playing texas hold'em at Little Creek last night.

Who won?

 

 

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

 

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

For all, or just for Rob?

For all, or just for Rob? We're getting hit with the infamous Double-Standard again, and it's not right. Especially when Rob is one of the more deligent contributors in asking others to back up their statements with proof. Can't anyone come up with a provable example of a minority or LBGT systematically harrassed by the OPD?

“I said it in Hebrew—I said it in Dutch—I said it in German and Greek: But I wholly forgot (and it vexes me much) That English is what you speak!”
The Hunting of the Snark

Red meat is NOT bad for you. Now blue-green meat, THAT'S bad for you!
Tommy Smothers

What I'm really looking for

 Is proof this is a regular actvity.  Not isolated incidents, but regular and common as claimed and implied.

if The Olympian reported like this everyone would be upset, but it's okay on Olyblog and for Rob?   

 

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

 

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

What change are they trying

What change are they trying to institute? That non-whites should never be arrested for any reason? A criminal's a criminal even if they're poor, black, and from a broken home.

"We aren't going to let you win this time. You will not take one of us today."

Why is that right? I guess we should just give them a free pass. Give them full immunity, they can't ever do wrong. Blame the system whenever something fails.

I guess we learned from OJ that it's even alright for them to kill white people because sometimes white cops are insensitive.

It was also a group of people that have studied or seen first hand the way police control The People with violence in order to protect capital.

Baloney. I am part of The People too. Or are we going to fall back on the "white people don't count" argument? It was just a bunch of punks either looking for an excuse or getting caught up in the heat of the mob.

As a community, I believe it is in our best interests to start a conversation about the police and how they do their jobs.

It's only criminals and their enablers who feel the police are out of control. Why not, as a community, it's not in our best interests to start a conversation about the criminals and how they feel entitled?

If we want to live in the kind of society we dream of, with real freedom, and real access to community, we have to come together and support one another

I already live in that society, thank you. Oh, that's right, I'm white and my parents have been married for almost 40 years.

We can't criticize each other and bicker because that only does our "enemy's" job for them.

The cops are only the enemy of the criminal. Black or white, rich or poor.

Everybody is needed, every idea is valuable....

Remember that if you counter this.

Red meat is NOT bad for you. Now blue-green meat, THAT'S bad for you!
Tommy Smothers

My bad, no more stories of card games. :(

nt

If you disagree with me, then I wasn't talking to you.

This is one of those things that we won't agree on, hopefully that doesn't prevent us from being civil around beers at the BroHo.

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I appreciate the wish for

I appreciate the wish for continued civility and goodwill, but "If you disagree with me, then I wasn't talking to you"? I'm walking away, but let the record show I'm shaking my head.

“I said it in Hebrew—I said it in Dutch—I said it in German and Greek: But I wholly forgot (and it vexes me much) That English is what you speak!”
The Hunting of the Snark

Red meat is NOT bad for you. Now blue-green meat, THAT'S bad for you!
Tommy Smothers

No, really, nothing personal,

I didn't write this for you, I wrote for people who agree with me. Maybe I should have clarified that in the original post, but I didn't think it would become an issue.

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Ummm....

Well said for the most part although I cannot agree with your sentiment.

I do have to wonder why you think the OLYMPIA CITY COUNCIL can remove the THURSTON COUNTY SHERIFF? 

 

The story so far: In the beginning, the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people mad and been widely regarded as a bad idea. -The Restaurant at the end of the Universe

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

Whoops!

Your right about that. Well I never think of Thurston County Commissioners as my representatives. I guess it won't hurt to talk to both governments about his conduct.

The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com

I honestly believe

You won't get very far with them, at least if you continue in your anti cop/government rhetoric.  You are very articulate about it, which is more than most in that vein :-)

Of course I'm the guy walking around openly wearing a gun, so who am I to criticize the viewpoints of others?  :-)

Do you think if you went to a metting of the commissioners and presented a solid case with facts and ideals to back up your opinion you would get heard out?  Or do you think you will get dismissed as a kook? 

 

The story so far: In the beginning, the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people mad and been widely regarded as a bad idea. -The Restaurant at the end of the Universe

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

I'd like to pic this statement apart...

I'll italicize my responses...

"Historically, challenges to power have been met with fury and retribution in orders of magnitude larger than what could be considered fair and just.

Yes and no.  Government like any other entity will respond with enough force to protect it's existence.  In an ideal society that existence comes from the people, who will dictate the level of acceptable force.

One destroyed cop car is not equal to ten years in jail served by people used as scapegoats.

It goes beyond a single vehicle.  That is an emergency vehicle, which they are now one less short.  I am sure they have spares, but concievably this could limit a response before it is replaced when it may be needed.  That is why the punishment is so strong for this sort of action.

The police officers will receive no punishment for beating and dousing the public, yet again, with pepper spray, sending one student to the hospital with bruised ribs. Instead they will receive over time pay, which will continue to increase the costs of the incident."

You see it as beating and dousing the public, but many people will see it as standard crowd control techniques.  Believe me I am no great fan of law enforcement run amok and have been on the end of a "My partner has his gun out in case you try something" conversation and did not like it.  However pepper spray is fairly harmless in nearly all cases, and using batons to push and break up an unruly mob is not a great offence.  You may find it informative to study crowd control techniques.  Mobs are a great force to order, and remember there are reports of rioters trying to grap deputy's weapons.  Do you want those people to get the cop's guns?  What would have happened had they seized a weapon?  And for those who are about to say "Ahaha!  We shouldn't have guns on campus, it is illegal to carry a gun to an "outdoor music festival" already.

Just ask yourself, not in the context of "I don't like the man" but as a citizen, what do you do when a mob gets out of control?  What would have most likely turned into a brief detainment and release turned into something else entirely.   

 

 

The story so far: In the beginning, the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people mad and been widely regarded as a bad idea. -The Restaurant at the end of the Universe

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

The police

You have some solid points, but if the cops hadn't been violent, nothing would have happened. If a mob of people got together in downtown Tacoma and told all the Chinese they had to leave, the police should hold them accountable. Although when that really happened what did the police do and who got prosecuted? It's been a long time but some things haven't changed very much. Police prosecute some mobs and don't prosecute others. There are reasons for that. I will agree with you that the grabbing at a fire arm is very disturbing. I'm not sure that claim is true though. People were very close together. Also people didn't steal weapons from the overturned cop car even though they were inside of it.

The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com

Correct me if I am wrong

 But didn't the cops start trying to disperse the crowd only after they got nasty over a simple misdemeanor arrest?  

 

 

.45/70 Government (The only Government I trust!)

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

I was there but...

...it was still hard to tell who got nasty first. It seemed that there was one or two students beginning to get bold possibly after some nasty exchanges and then the cops opened up with a full on spray of pepper. After that it got frantic with people all of a sudden super angry and throwing stuff. The police had over an hour to settle this before it got ugly and they let him go only after it did, even though for 15 minutes they said they would. I think if they had let it go sooner the crowd would have dispersed. It is tricky.

The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com

Crowd control is tough

 Especially when the cops are understaffed.  These are pretty standard responses to unrest in crowds.  Do you think a pumped up crowd listening a group that has some pretty anti government songs had anything to do with it?  The fact that at least one person had spraypaint to tag things with makes me wonder...  Kinda funny isn't it?  Who goes to a concert with spray paint?

 

.45/70 Government (The only Government I trust!)

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

Hey Tipper, let's not blame the music.

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I'm not blaming the music per se

 But the attitude and following that may come from it.  There are a lot more shootings at hip hop clubs than concert halls....

 

.45/70 Government (The only Government I trust!)

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

A lot more poverty too.

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So it's ok

 For poor people to kill each other over west coast vs east coast rappers or whatever insane uneducated moronic excuses they use to kill each other?

 

.45/70 Government (The only Government I trust!)

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

This was real positive hiphop

Poor people are kept out of concert halls, but if they tried to enter I'm sure the guards would change that statistic around real quick. As far as the spray paint, the whole thing took place within 5 minutes walking distance of the dorms and less to the parking lot. People had plenty of time to run home and grab their gear.

The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com

Poor people are

 "kept out of concert halls"  You make it sound deliberate.  Poor people are "kept out" of a lot concerts...

I don't like the socialist notion of redistribution of wealth.  I work hard for what I have, and if I invest it and make more of it, I don't need some wild eyed bomb throwing anarchist demanding I hand it over.   

 

.45/70 Government (The only Government I trust!)

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

Capitalism is just as much a redistribution of wealth...

...but in the other direction.


> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract

Beware the terrible simplifiers.
Jacob Burckhardt

What do you propose then?

I read a book called "The Good Earth" one time by Pearl Buck.  Kinda interesting what can happen when the wealth gets redistributed....

 

 

.45/70 Government (The only Government I trust!)

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

Look...

...even Adam Smith, the grandfather of the free market, thought that it was in everyone's interest to have a safety net. What we see happening right now is so far beyond acceptable with respect to human dignity and suffering, what Robert Reich calls "Super Capitalism." You think you benefit from this system? Not hardly. Ask yourself this: how bad does it have to get before people without huge amounts of capital stop acting and voting against their interests?

And we're not talking about blood running in the streets, so please don't go there. Just look at other countries with rational policies about education, health care, retirement, etc. Why can't we have that?


> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract

Beware the terrible simplifiers.
Jacob Burckhardt

Because

 We don't have a stable population. Our society is still in flux.  Close the borders for about 50 years and start teaching social responsibility and issues to the people inside, unify them in a single NATIONAL IDENTIY and then see what happens.  We can't have that level of "stability" yet.  To many hypenated americans and not enough Americans.  

 

.45/70 Government (The only Government I trust!)

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

By every econonic measure available...

emigrants to this country have enriched it. They also commit less crime, and they learn English within one generation, just like they always have. Those are not reasons why we can't have more rational policies.


> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract

Beware the terrible simplifiers.
Jacob Burckhardt

Yeah

I saw a lot of that learning english within one generation in California...  but I digress.  I am not anti immigrant, I am anti non homogenization, and I do not believe there is a homogenized enough culture in the US to ensure a functioning socialist society. 

Nor am I sure I like a socialist society.  Too many individual liberties may have to get sacrificed in order to create the sort of nanny state that socialism demands. 

 

God God God/Won't you lead us through this mess/God God God/From the places of concrete
God God God/Nothing's worse than ignorance/God God God/I just won't accept defeat

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

France is a country...

...with huge issues about emigration and identity. There are large portions of the country that are disaffected and angry. Still, they manage to have the best health care in the world, and all the benefits of a social safety net.

And, just to echo Michael Moore, one could just as easily call it "christianized medicine," e.g., one where we take care of the poor and vulnerable (as well as everyone else).


> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract

Beware the terrible simplifiers.
Jacob Burckhardt

Yup

France is a great place unless you are a islamic woman. " "They used to burn dustbins and cars – now they burn girls." These were the words of Kahina Benziane after her sister Sohane was raped, tortured and burned alive by schoolmates on October 4, 2002 in the Parisian suburb of Vitry."

Start here.

Nope, France's nice stable population makes for a socialist paradise. I'll take crazed greeners and imported anarchists any day over they way the French do business.

Where is the social safety net for the islamic women who have the unmitigated gall to live outside of an opressive religious lifestyle? 

You live and learn. At any rate, you live. -- Douglas Adams

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

Not sure what you're saying here.

Are we talking about health care or social unrest? My point was just that social unrest doesn't seem to stop the French from making good decisions about how to allocate social resources.


> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract

Beware the terrible simplifiers.
Jacob Burckhardt

Wild eyed rejectors of an obviously busted system

Most socialists don't even pray for redistribution of wealth. That is too much to ask that billionaires give up their family inheritances. The top tier of the wealthiest in this country, those that have over around $3 million in wealth, usually stay wealthy for generations no matter how hard they work. Some work hard but they still started so far ahead that it is impossible to compete and near impossible for them to not make money with their money.

I'm sure you do work hard. I think by definition socialists aren't "wild eyed bomb throwing anarchists," instead most are poor people who want to work hard and do but get nothing in return. Very few are the extraordinary who start with nothing and shoot to the top. It is very nearly a myth. I think socialism is about making sure everyone has access to education for as long as they wish to learn and get good enough grades. That everyone has healthcare so that sickness won't leave your family without a provider. That people can rely that their jobs won't get shipped to Mexico. That maybe the richest among us and the poorest among us will still ride the bus together and when they do they might find some interesting things to talk about.


The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com

It would take an entire

 Change of human nature to achieve what you want to.  Good luck. I have been a very poor person working hard.  I've gone from sleeping in the woods to owning a small yacht (remember I can get a bigger one if I really wanted to).  How?  I didn't let myself get ground down.  I have despaired at times, and demanded a redistribution of wealth.  Then I finally figured out it's easier to make my own than wait for a pie in the sky redistribution of wealth.  I think they tried it in Russia, oh circa 1917...  didn't work.  In fact I don't know of any "redistribution" scheme that has worked.

I distrust socialized medicine as well.  It's a wonderful idea if it could be made to work in a fair and equitable manner.  But those who earn more often footing an unequal share of the bill.  Just because I am capable of earning or creating more wealth does not mean I should pay out a higher percentage of that wealth than someone making less, yet it usually happens that the rich pay out a disproportionate amount.  That does not encourage upward mobility, it reinforces the notion that you can do as little as possible but someone else will still take care of you.

Give me capitalism and a society that truly believes in it any day. 

.45/70 Government (The only Government I trust!)

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

There is nothing but capitalism. There is nothing but capitalism

Hey whatever you want but capitalists should know by now if you keep screwing over the bottom tier they get angry and retaliate. It happens constantly. Plus how much is enough? Apparently a small yacht is enough for you, but some people own jets, large yachts, submarines, and give nothing back. It is most of our nature to remember the times when we were given a break and to give those breaks to other people. It is also human nature to take care of your community. It is also human nature to not live in boxes, drive around in boxes and watch boxes all day, but we certainly do that. I also don't think that greed and gluttony is a part of human nature.

The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com

Now I never said

I don't give anything back.  I don't feel the urge to brag about it or discuss what I do.  Believe me, I remember where I have been, and do what I can.  Some will say I don't do enough, others will demand an accounting.  I simply say I am satisfied in my own heart with what I have done and continue to do.  

Also, I used the term "yacht" somewhat tongue in cheek.  An Aquarius 23 is a bit smallish, but comfortable.  Also it is my home.  It is not a luxury item.  My idea of a luxury item are fancy hardwood pistol grips.

Some would say my laptop is pretty fancy.  I say I bought a used machine that had some minor damage that I fixed.  It all depends on your worldview. 

 

.45/70 Government (The only Government I trust!)

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

"I don't know of any "redistribution" scheme that has worked"

Huh? Do you not recognize the benefits of publicly funded primary education or publicly subisidzed higher education or medical care for for low-income mothers or early-learning programs for at risk children or...shall I continue? There are many forms of income redistribution here and elsewhere that "work."

Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes

Usually when I hear the term

"Redistribution of Wealth" I envision revolutionaries in Russia running around shooting people who they think represent the "ruling, priveleged class."  

What you describe is not so much a "redistribution of wealth" as some would want, but tax funded social services.  We still have a wealthy class in this country. 

 

God God God/Won't you lead us through this mess/God God God/From the places of concrete
God God God/Nothing's worse than ignorance/God God God/I just won't accept defeat

 

This is a non political tag line and cannot be linked up through a twisted thought process to an obscure company making specialty tools.  

I am describing income redistribution

It is not simply limited to taking everything away from rich and giving it all away to the poor.

Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes