Yes, I understand that I can engage and initiate conflict, but I try to keep it cordial, deliberate, with a point about how we choose to live rather than who we are. 

In the two recent cases in which I asked for the docents to step in and warn the other party, I felt that what was occurring was a deliberate, gratuitous personal attack. I felt the attack had little or no connection to the topic of discussion, but was purely and simply a personal attack. I don't think any of us should have to put up with that and I think the best way to minimize the conflict and lower the vitriol is to nip those battles in the bud.

Hence, instead of reacting or responding to a gratuitous personal attack, I have asked for the docents to step in quickly and warn the other party to "play the ball, not the man."

I haven't scanned the Sealth thread in the past 24 hours, but when I last looked, no docent had suggested to JT on that thread that his gratuitous personal attack was a cause for concern or was inappropriate.

I did not enjoy the constant hypocrite line he was pushing and I think the docent(s) should have weighed in publicly and called the foul.

I guess I will go look and see if that has been done yet.

I urge the docents to implement a strike system and call strikes formally when requested or to post a determination that no offense warranting a strike has been committed.

I urge that a separate thread or list be maintained linking to strikes, so that over time, people posting here can review and understand what level and type of behavior will get you a strike.  To create a record about what kind of behavior is not going to be tolerated here. 

I would suggest that posting thought-provoking material, even when the thoughts provoked are sometimes disturbing (such as the idea that the best of us probably have cultural biases and filters, thought patterns and assumptions that are essentially, but not deliberately racist) is not a violation of the social contract. It may be thought to be baiting, but again intention and experience may not align.

There is not much thought-provoking about going out of your way to call another poster here a hypocrite. That is all about alienation. That is wrong and the docents should have no trouble acknowledging that and stepping in as soon as they can when that happens here.

I also understand that the conservatives folks here keep the docents off-balance with the charge that there is liberal bias but I encourage the docents to use their gray matter and the spinal column that supports it to stand up and call the strikes when they are clear. and to do so promptly and publicly.

It could also be described as provincial and I think it serves us badly in this time when global issues like climate change require global discussion and local action.

I hear what you are saying about the work burden of being a docent. I have been a board member or officer or active volunteer in one or more organizations for all of my adult life. This includes volunteer fire and emergency responder work, foodbank volunteer, court appointed special advocate volunteer, youth fair department superintendent, technical advisor and board member with domestic violence and sexual assault agencies, committee member with shelter and public health issues, active volunteer for interfaith groups. When I have agreed to pick up these volunteer and board positions, I assumed the weight of the work that went along with the role and I carried that weight for as long as I could.

I understand that the role of the docents is less than clear and I continue to suggest that we focus the role through the strike system. I understand if a less engaged docent role continues, but I think the fallout is that personal attacks and an intolerable level of conflict will continue to exist here on a regular basis.

I don't need any of the folks who post here to leave, but I need some of them to leave me alone, not to engage in threatening behavior or speech, not to engage in gratuitous personal attacks.

There is dominant culture stuff everywhere that is tough for those of us who are not steeped in dominant culture.  You clearly know that through your awakening to interspecies violence.  You have been clear that discussions that assume interspecies violence violate your sensibilities and I appreciate that.

I seem to be on that path but behind you a ways in terms of recognizing and structuring my life to reduce (eliminate? can it be done?) interspecies violence.

I feel the same sense of violation and affront about cultural prejudice and bias that you feel about interspecies violence.  So, when anyone discounts the philosophy or depth of feeling and thought that exists in indigenous cultures, I am really put off, and sometimes, set off.  

In that regard, the term "noble savage" was used here with regard to Sealth.  And I react very badly to that idea.  Like the interspecies violence that is inherent in so many mainstream assumptions, the idea of the noble savage is completely offensive to me.  

First, I think when an individual from an industrialized society calls an individual from a non-industrial society a savage, they are truly ignoring the savagery of industrial society, the wholesale violence and extermination of indigenous people by "civilized man."  

Second, I think the background for the idea of the "noble savage" is that the cultural wisdom, the persuasive and touching pantheistic philosophy expressed by eloquent spokespersons of indigenous cultures is not actually the thought of the "savage" but a romanticized expression of the desire of the civilized man who may set to paper the oral tradition and wisdom of a nomadic culture, a culture that leaves its record in the hearts of the people rather than safely stored and indexed in a public library. 

The upshot of my horror about this kind of intellectual negation of the wisdom of an indigenous people is that some folks think I am putting on a "holier than thou" attitude, when in fact, my experience is a more "horrified than thou" emotional experience.  I sometimes wish that my heart was not so open to this stuff.  Then I could eat a burger without a qualm or discuss the noble savages without a second thought.  That bell cannot be unrung. 

So, to the extent that my eyes are open, my heart is open to some of these things in ways that I cannot and would not change, the brushes that I have here with the mainstream culture and its cultural assumptions are simply horrifying to me on occasion.  

I appreciate your time to express support.  We have a lot of work to do before we might live in the midst of a mainstream culture that does not horrify us on a regular basis.   

I am not sure I want to deconstruct your question: what more can you ask for? but need to review the apology you cite first,  My reluctance to bother deconstructing your question relates to the question in this thread about the role of the docents.

I will say that this post is not about JT or any apology that he may have made, but about the role of the docents and our ability to call them to act promptly when any of us feel that we are the target of a gratuitous attack. That is why I used the title "Role of the Docents." 

I appreciate and respect you, Rick, as you know.  Are you willing to limit the discussion to the role of the docents?   

enpen said: Maybe we should have reacted differently, I'm not sure. This is a learning process. What is clear is that you believe we should have reacted differently. We can take that into consideration.

That would be helpful.  I appreciate it if the docents would consider a call for relief from what is perceived to be a gratuitous attack seriously and realize that it is a call to help the conversation from breaking down.  That someone, anyone of us thinks somebody is over the line and that things are now likely to get ugly.  Let's assume that none of us want that.  I believe that it is true that none of us want that. 

enpen said: I for one am completely against a three strike system on OlyBlog. I hate that this baseball language has made it into common American English vernacular, and it's a poor metaphor at that. What happens when you strike out in baseball? You wait around for another turn. When we speak about it in punitive terms it's three strikes and you're out of the system, no more turns, you're gone.

enpen said: So if we use our gray matter and spinal columns then we will abide by your request. By this logic then not following your request means we're not using our gray matter and spinal columns...which seems a thinly veiled way of saying we're being idiots. Is this "thought-provoking material?"

Yes, I apologize for the implication.  I have no reason to think that any of the docents should currently intervene when requested because there is no agreement regarding that.  We only have the social contract and a violation of the social contract does not clearly have consequences.   

enpen asked: I would like to know what you believe OlyBlog is here for.

I will assume that this was meant to be posed as a question and not a rhetorical device, so based on that assumption:  I use Olyblog to post information, thoughts, suggestions, requests to the progressive community in South Sound.  It is problematic that many here, including yourself, use Olyblog for other purposes, the dialogue, conversation model, etc because my primary interest is connecting with other local progressives.  To support each other in dark times when the power of our country, its might and our tax dollars are killing folks on a wholesale basis.  I have always been pretty discouraged and anxious during times of open war by the US.  that was true during Vietnam era and it is true today.  I was less anxious and angry about this country when we were using our military might on a piece meal basis as we did invading Grenada, Panama.  I don't like that stuff, but I feel like the country's willingness to use force indiscriminately is sufficiently suppressed when the national hawks only feel they can get away with that level of global assault.  

I apologize to all for my strident attitude during times when the US is using my tax dollars to kill people on a wholesale basis.  I really take that very badly and I have found no way to stem the grief I experience when this is happening.  That is why I come here, to connect with other progressives who may be experiencing the same grief, frustration, sense of horror to brainstorm how we survive these dark times and bring back the light.  

Granted, Olyblog is poorly suited for my needs.  I acknowledge that. I continue to approach OMJP and ask that they move their list serv to a blog format with a goal of meeting my needs (and others who need a local blog for the same purpose) instead of trying to meet that need through this wide political spectrum community.  

As for the hyperlocal versus global focus, either will work for me, my point, less than clear, was that I don't believe a hyperlocal focus can be relied on to create the safe container that is talked about.  

Thanks again for thoughtful response.   

This immediately made me think of a Shawshank Redemption quote...so I'm just going to warp it a little to serve my purposes here: Larry - who rehabilitated from a possible stroke and came out funny on the other side.

""In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe