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Submitted by security_six on Mon, 02/18/2008 - 7:06pm.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=6900&year=2007 Establishing vehicle engine displacement and emissions fees. I don't like it. There is no reason to pay this kind of taxes. EDIT: As a general sort of disclaimer, I don't own a car, haven't owned a car for 10 years or so, and don't have a valid driver's license. EDIT AGAIN: Here is the discussion where I learned of the bill.
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Why do you say there is no reason?
Submitted by Guglielmo on Mon, 02/18/2008 - 7:13pm.Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes
Because
Submitted by security_six on Mon, 02/18/2008 - 7:15pm.It places a burden on those who may not be able to afford it. Rich will have no problem paying it, and the working poor will have one more expense added to them. There are better ways to encourage fuel economy other than taxing people out of their cars.
"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown
Gug says,
Submitted by JT on Mon, 02/18/2008 - 7:46pm."The reasoning behind such a tax seems pretty clear to me."
Ok, spell out your thoughts.
No matter if the science is all phony, there are collateral environmental benefits. Climate change provides the greatest chance to bring about justice and equality in the world ever.Christine Stewart (the real basis for the AGW scare)
The idea is
Submitted by Guglielmo on Mon, 02/18/2008 - 10:39pm.Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes
It does not take fuel economy and and
Submitted by security_six on Mon, 02/18/2008 - 10:44pm.Host of other issues into consideration.
Read this discussion
It penalizes nobody, but is a feel good bill that makes the supporters look like they are supporting green initiatives.
The carbon emission tax contained in the bill makes more sense than taxing engine size. I'll bet it's nothing more than a feel good revenue scheme disguised as something good for the enviroment.
There are working folks with families who drive large vehicles out of need, or folks in Eastern Washington who have to drive large vehicles to get around unmaintained rural roads and in the winter time. This tax unjustly affects people who depend on some vehicles.
"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown
So you would favor a carbon tas. Good. Me too.
Submitted by Guglielmo on Tue, 02/19/2008 - 9:56am.Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes
I never said I would support
Submitted by security_six on Tue, 02/19/2008 - 3:03pm.A carbon tax, only that it would make more sense than a displacement tax. I don't own a car nor have a driver's license so I'm a bit removed from this. That's why I didn't comment much in the initial post. I put it up to see where it would go.
"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown
Sounds Like "Deja Vu All Over Again!"
Submitted by Jeff Brigham on Mon, 02/18/2008 - 7:52pm.When I first heard about this bill, I said to myself, "Didn't we go through this in 1999?" and "Didn't our citizens make our wishes clear in 1999?" These people certainly do have short memories. I wonder if this one is going to be another "emergency"?
If this passes, I foresee better than even odds that I'll be out collecting signatures again!
Jeff Brigham
Thank you Tim Eyman
Submitted by Marcie on Mon, 02/18/2008 - 8:08pm.I don't think it has anything to do with Eyman...
Submitted by security_six on Mon, 02/18/2008 - 10:04pm.The claim is to mitigate damage to the roads. There is also a arbon emissions tax. I posted a link to a discussion about this on another forum where there are some interesting comparisons of cars and their engines.
Personaly my gut says this is an attempt to encourage the purchase and use of more efficient cars, which is an admirable goal, but I believe the damage it will do to the poor or families outweighs the good it may do.
"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown
It was the people of
Submitted by Jeff Brigham on Mon, 02/18/2008 - 11:48pm.It was the people of Washington State that made the real decisions on initiatives that Tim Eyman sponsored. Initiatives and referendums truly are government of the people, by the people, and for the people.
Jeff Brigham
Looks like it is dead...
Submitted by security_six on Mon, 02/18/2008 - 10:48pm.A letter from Senator Hobbs is here...
"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown
That's great news! In my
Submitted by Jeff Brigham on Mon, 02/18/2008 - 11:34pm.That's great news! In my opinion this was just another grab for money cammo'd up as an "ecology" measure. Glad it's dead.
Jeff Brigham
Pretty much as I saw it
Submitted by security_six on Mon, 02/18/2008 - 11:37pm.If I had known it was dead I would not have posted it in the first place.
"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown
That's silly
Submitted by Marcie on Mon, 02/18/2008 - 10:51pm.The problem with the old car tabs
Submitted by JT on Tue, 02/19/2008 - 5:27am.price, pre-I695, the money was being used for LOTS of things besides fixing roads. It was another welfare program.
No matter if the science is all phony, there are collateral environmental benefits. Climate change provides the greatest chance to bring about justice and equality in the world ever.Christine Stewart (the real basis for the AGW scare)
The current trouble with the ferries
Submitted by CIAGuy on Tue, 02/19/2008 - 8:40am.The ferry system is one of the many welfare
Submitted by JT on Tue, 02/19/2008 - 6:39pm.programs supported by the tabs pre-I695, as well at public transit.
The reason the ferry system is having problems is because they didn't have the forsight to budget for new ferries. All vehicles have a limited lifetime including ferries. I have to budget for when my cars need replacement, government should do the same. They have had 80 years in some cases to save for today. The ferry system should be supported by those that use them.
I'm in favor of a system that requires drivers to pay for the roads they use. I haven't seen a system that is a good one yet, but I would be supportive of such a system.
No matter if the science is all phony, there are collateral environmental benefits. Climate change provides the greatest chance to bring about justice and equality in the world ever.Christine Stewart (the real basis for the AGW scare)
Not so sure it is a welfare system
Submitted by security_six on Tue, 02/19/2008 - 6:48pm.The ferries are an extension of the state highway system in practice and law. Not sure how to support transit which I use all the time, but not sure car taxes are the way to do it.
"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown
JT said
Submitted by CIAGuy on Tue, 02/19/2008 - 6:53pm."I have to budget for when my cars need replacement, government should do the same. They have had 80 years in some cases to save for today. The ferry system should be supported by those that use them."
What would happen to your replacement budget when your income drops by a third and your costs increase by 50%? (check the cost of diesel fuel) Might you not postpone some large purchases?<
Fares for a car and driver increased from $6.50 in 1999 to $11.55 today. http://www.psrc.org/publications/pubs/trends/t15apr06.pdf and http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/ferries/fares/Default.aspx
Like I said earlier this is not welfare unless you consider all state highways as such. I don't use State Route 20 over the North Cascades much but I still pay for it.
Clearly if the fares hadn't relied on
Submitted by JT on Tue, 02/19/2008 - 9:30pm.tax dollars in the first place, and the ferry system was run like a business for profit, the ferry system wouldn't be in trouble now. I fully understand the ferry system is part of the state highway system. But that is likely why it is in trouble now. The ferry system would have been better off if private business was in control.
Let's see, the ferries have been in service for 80 years, but tax funding was cut 9 years ago, and now there is a lack of money for replacement of the ferries? Do you think there was fiscal mismanagement? Is that the way you run your home budget? If so you likely have similar problems.
No matter if the science is all phony, there are collateral environmental benefits. Climate change provides the greatest chance to bring about justice and equality in the world ever.Christine Stewart (the real basis for the AGW scare)
Very badly managed....
Submitted by security_six on Tue, 02/19/2008 - 9:32pm.IIRC the State bought out Black Ball lines back in the 50's creating the WSF system. My guess is where a private firm knows it has to maintain it's fleet the state ignores things.
It may be better to find a private marine operator to run the fleet, or to divert a certain amount of the transportion budget to put things back into order. With proper maintanence and care we would not have had these problems. Too many band aids and not enough money spent years ago when it would have helped.
"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown