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Submitted by Rick on Wed, 12/05/2007 - 12:39am.
Preamble As members of the OlyBlog community, we acknowledge our mutual responsibility for maintaining conditions under which communication can flourish - conditions characterized by openness, honesty, civility and fairness. These conditions carry with them certain rights and responsibilities, expressed in this Social Contract, a document that will define and guide the blog's values and operation from this time forward. The Social Contract is an agreement; a guide for civility and tolerance toward others; a reminder that respecting others and remaining open to others and their ideas is an essential ingredient for successful community building. By registering for an account on OlyBlog, individuals agree to abide by this contract. The Social Contract OlyBlog is a self-organizing community that offers an alternative civic forum for the discussion of news and events in Olympia, Washington. OlyBlog can thrive only if members respect the rights of others while enjoying their own rights. Members of the community may differ widely in their specific interests, in the degree and kinds of experiences they bring to OlyBlog, and the level of involvement that they wish to undertake. All must share alike in demonstrating intellectual honesty, in responsibly obtaining and providing full and accurate information, and in resolving differences through a process with a strong will to collaboration. The individual members of the OlyBlog community are responsible for protecting each other and visitors to the blog from uncivil abuse and personal threats. Civility is not just a word; it must be present in all our interactions. Members of the community must be allowed to exercise the rights accorded them to voice their opinions with respect to basic matters of policy and other issues. The practice of communication without the benefit of face-to-face interaction poses certain unique challenges. In order to address these challenges, members of OlyBlog agree to the following practices:
As participants in the human activity of communication, we also acknowledge and value the use of humor as an important component of building a community. However, given that humor is highly subjective, there is the possibility of misunderstanding and conflict. The use of humor does not absolve an individual from their responsibility to protect other members from uncivil behavior. An essential condition for community is the freedom and right on the part of an individual or group to express minority, unpopular, or controversial points of view. Only if minority and unpopular points of view are tolerated and given opportunity for expression will OlyBlog provide bona fide opportunities for significant consciousness raising. There shall be no discrimination at OlyBlog based on race, sex, age, handicap, sexual orientation, religious or political belief, or national origin in considering individuals' membership. |
OlyBlog.net OlyBlog is devoted to citizen journalism, including hyperlocal news and discussion specifically about Olympia, Washington. If you care about this community and are tired of corporate media, then this is the place for you. If you'd like to contribute, please register for an account. Here is a list of local news beats that need to be covered. You can post your news as a personal blog entry, and it will be reviewed (and possibly edited) for promotion to the front page. Once you've established a record of responsible blogging, you can become an autonomous user. You can also send news via email. All members of OlyBlog agree to abide by our comment and fair use policies. If you are frustrated about something said in a comment thread, go here. Latest Classified Ads Upcoming events
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Disclose any conflict of interest.
Submitted by security_six on Wed, 12/05/2007 - 9:03am.Can you elaborate on that one please? If I chime in on say a gun rights issue, do I have to say "BTW, I am an NRA member?"
Or if a person works for, or on behalf of a company, agency, or other entity, are they not to have an opinion on an issue involving that entity without first disclosing their relationship? What if they have an opinion that may not be favorable to that entity?
I think this is a sticky issue.
I also think rewriting entries should be acceptable, so long as the edit is noted, and why.
I think this arose...
Submitted by Rick on Wed, 12/05/2007 - 9:08am....from bloggers who working for campaigns out there blogging as if they were just citizens. In all ethical dilemmas, each would have to look to his/her own conscience to do the right thing -- I interpret it to mean "relevant" conflicts of interests.
> Say something interesting or say nothing at all. <
Okay
Submitted by security_six on Wed, 12/05/2007 - 9:10am.You know about why I was concerned about this one...
Your interpretation makes sense.
conflict of interest
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Tue, 07/08/2008 - 6:44am.hmmm
Submitted by enpen on Wed, 12/05/2007 - 10:56am.Despite my previous comment agreeing to the gist of this Social Contract I'm beginning to feel some reservations due to the hurry at which it has been accepted and implemented. I feel concerns like darrow's have been left unaddressed. I also feel as if DC's attempt to abide by the language of the developing contract was completely blown off which causes me to call into question the contract's fundamental validity.
I'm sure we won't be able to get everyone on board...
Submitted by Rick on Wed, 12/05/2007 - 3:29pm....before going live. But I'm hopeful that they will see the value of the Social Contract once we've had a chance to see it in action in conjunction with our Bylaws. I also think we need to build in accountability for docents as well. Would you like to tackle that part?
> Say something interesting or say nothing at all. <
a couple of talking points
Submitted by enpen on Wed, 12/05/2007 - 5:37pm.The individual members of the OlyBlog community are responsible for protecting each other and visitors to the blog from uncivil abuse and personal threats. Civility is not just a word; it must be present in all our interactions. Members of the community must be allowed to exercise the rights accorded them to voice their opinions with respect to basic matters of policy and other issues.
and
An essential condition for community is the freedom and right on the part of an individual or group to express minority, unpopular, or controversial points of view. Only if minority and unpopular points of view are tolerated and given opportunity for expression will OlyBlog provide bona fide opportunities for significant consciousness raising. There shall be no discrimination at OlyBlog based on race, sex, age, handicap, sexual orientation, religious or political belief, or national origin in considering individuals' membership.
Between these two paragraphs it seems pretty clear that we are to be held to the same standards as everyone else and that when a contributing member of OlyBlog points out that we are acting in a manner of "uncivil abuse" it is as true a warning as if a docent were to point out like behavior by somebody else. I would be comfortable allowing OlyBlog members to call a vote of no confidence in any given docent at any given time, the results of which would decide on replacing or retaining the docent in question.
I'm having a difficult time resolving the language of "(a)ll must share alike in...resolving differences through a process with a strong will to collaboration" with hoping that people will see the Social Contract's value post implementation. Yes, the Contract has been made available as a Wiki in order to encourage collaborative creation. Yes, given some of the recent negative disruptions and their ensuing silences on OlyBlog an expedient development of social codes with which to hold ourselves accountable to each other feels desirous. However, I think maybe setting a predetermined amount of time wherein the Wiki is open for collaboration and the topic is open to debate is good. I lobby for a month. I think that gives us time to acclimate to some of the new personalities as well as time to sleep on the language.
We've tried "no rules" long enough.
Submitted by Rick on Wed, 12/05/2007 - 6:28pm.It's time to try something else. We can work out the bugs on the fly.
> Say something interesting or say nothing at all. <
collaboration
Submitted by enpen on Wed, 12/05/2007 - 10:06pm.Here's my deal: I agree with the language of this Social Contract and I endorse it as a means to an end.
Pushing through this Social Contract is in direct violation of its stipulation that "(a)ll must share alike in...resolving differences through a process with a strong will to collaboration." We shouldn't kid ourselves, in establishing the contract right now we're not abiding by it. If a like situation arises it will, however, allow the community to stop it.
Agreed.
Submitted by Rick on Wed, 12/05/2007 - 10:16pm.I think having the contract will give us a tool that we can use. But there's something else going on here: you can't force people to collaborate if they don't want to. There are some who are just never going to buy into something they think is a "speech code" or a tool for persecuting people with a particular viewpoint. The only way they'll get on board is by demonstrating that it will result in a fair, transparent, and predictable system.
> Say something interesting or say nothing at all. <
frame
Submitted by enpen on Thu, 12/06/2007 - 7:47am.Civility
Submitted by Sarah on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 12:11pm.The social contract is well worth revisiting, even for we long term members.
I'm been thinking on how important civility is. I've noticed that sometimes I post and participate far less than I want to when I feel that I'll have to deal with resulting ridicule as consequence. I'm sure that I'm not the only person who has felt this.
I know we won't be able to please everyone all of the time but I'm glad that we are on the right track in creating safe community space.
safe for liberals?
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 12:38pm.What can be done to make you feel safer?
Submitted by Guglielmo on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 12:45pm.Yes, I Am
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 12:55pm.I don't feel safe or free to post my observations or opinions here anymore. When I've posted what I feel are hyperlocal things, one docent in particular deletes it because he doesn't think it's hyperlocal. But somebody else, including that particular docent, will post things about other cities and it's OK.
When I've voiced my opinions and observations, I've been personally attacked both on the blog and in PM's and nobody was reprimanded for it but others, including docents, are allowed to bully others.
I wholeheartedly disagree with S6's banishment and personally feel there are many others, including some docents, who deserve banishment far more than S6 did.
I think S6 prevailed in the end. He's created a forum where we all feel safe to be adults and treated as adults and post our opinions and observations freely. I feel much safer posting there than I ever will here.
Sorry to hear that
Submitted by Guglielmo on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 1:10pm.I've seen people post things lately that seem to heve been designed to get under a docent's skin. You wouldn't be talking about those kinds of posts, would you? Sometimes we get the results we secretly hope for. Anyway, I appreciated your last thread on the Oly Downtowner film. I think that's the kind of content people are shooting for here. Glad you found a safer place and hope it prospers.
The appearance of a double standard may be an insurmountable problem. But it would be productive to examine the role of docents in that regard (with all due respect to our dedicated volunteers).
C'mon, tell the truth
Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 2:41pm.I have a feeling this is the kind of thing JPO is talking about.
Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 3:14pm.If you lie, and people call
Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 4:35pm.Good questions.
Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 5:24pm.It depends on how you call them on it. If you call them a liar and drag them through the mud on the blog, then yes that's an attack. Honest and constructive feedback leaves both parties feeling better.
"I'm sorry, but what kind of discourse is allowed here?"
Civil discourse is allowed here.
"Are we supposed to simply humor people when they either lie, or make grossly inaccurate statements?"
I don't know exactly what you mean by lying, or where you're going with that. If someone states something as fact that isn't true, then do some research and post a link to some data that disproves what they're saying. It's not OK to sling mud at people for being wrong, or having a different values system or beliefs. If all of your responses are focused on the content of the posts, as opposed to the person posting it, usually you'll be better off. You know, play the ball, not the player.
Who's lying?
Submitted by Phil Owen on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 6:30pm.These questions have a rhetorical sound to them, and strike me as a bit of an accusation. Are you accusing JPO of lying on this thread?
The Canaanite's Call
the safety of OlyBlog
Submitted by enpen on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 11:33pm.Yes people will attack your opinions. I also distinctly recall you telling us all time and time again that we are all adults and don't need any moderation. And if I'm not mistaken you questioned Rob Richard's parenting, as well. Bloody hands point bloody fingers.
As far as coming back to moan and groan about the state of OlyBlog and S6, etc., etc., etc.: get over it. He got more out of OlyBlog than he ever put into it. Case in point, the recent announcement of his new (competing) forum was put on the front page of this very den of thieves. I wonder how many users would be over there without OlyBlog.
If people come here to build it up as a resource for our community then they get all the support I can give. Had S6 put as much into OlyBlog as into his new forum then I would've walked out of OlyBlog when he was given the boot. As is he put in some effort so I went to bat for him. He also took an enourmous amount of my time in trying to deal with the results of his personality conflicts. The scales were not equally measured no matter how often you, or JT or Norm come in here and bemoan the sad state of this space.
How did you meet S6? Oh yeah, OlyBlog. How about JT? Oh yeah, OlyBlog. Piss and moan, piss and moan. This is a free resource with the side effect of allowing 24-7 community. But don't let that stop you from complaining about an echo in the Grand Canyon.
"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe
sweeping in the breeze
Submitted by Sarah on Tue, 07/08/2008 - 6:48pm.I was sweeping leaves off the porch and a slight breeze stirred, enough that it was almost but not quite futile for me to continue.
What I wrote about - safety and civility - has nothing to do with liberal vs. conservative.
As I swept it dawned on me that sweeping into an opposing, although gentle, breeze is like hoping that we'll all be really heard on this matter.
I very much agree...
Submitted by Guglielmo on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 12:39pm.Civility is worth cultivating and enforcing if need be. There are many alternatives available to people who are looking for a free-for-all forum in which to entertain themselves, complain about administration, and chat. Olyblog can't please everyone, that's for sure. But who does? I believe Olyblog is on the right track...and I hope some folks show up tonight.
When a true Genius appears in the world, you will know him by this sign: all the dunces are in confederacy against him. -Johnathan Swift
You can please some of the people some of the time.
Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 1:35pm.I'm glad Steve has created a space for himself. I think it shows a lot about him that he won't give up. My initial cynicism has definitely waned, and I'm glad to see his BBS up and working. I'm glad that people feel safe there, I'm having a lot of thoughts about that, but would rather not go there.
I want to say a couple of things.
First, if anybody has any issue with any docent bring it up to me (especially if it's with me) in a PM, I'm willing to play a Q.A./dispute resolution role.
Second, there's no reason for anybody to feel unsafe here, if you feel unsafe here, something is wrong and you should bring it to my attention. I promise that I will help you, to the best of my ability, reconcile the situation. Please do not get into a war of words on the blog, it detracts from conversation and ultimately sinks the blog.
We should, in my opinion, be learning, even in disagreement, from one another. Also, I think we'd be better served by not approaching threads like a competition, but like a cooperative learning experience where even if you don't change the other person's mind you and they both have discovered a new angle on the issue. The more angles we have on an issue, the better prepared we are to solve problems.
Clarification
Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 2:08pm.Olydowntowner
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 6:07pm.just proved my point... And is one of the reasons OB is losing good posters. He's deserves banishment more than S6 EVER did. He baits, personally attacks others opinions and is very antagonistic making many uncomfortable, and feeling unsafe to post.
As for issues with docents, RR personally told me never speak to or of him again either on the blog or in PM's, so while his plea is seems heartfelt, it's rather a moot point when RR or any other docent has a personal vendetta against you.
Rob
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 7:04pm.You are a really nice guy, and an easy person to talk with. With that in mind, I'm glad you can post a message like this in your docent role.
Although I think your intentions are good, I think you, as well as the other docents, are blind to your own issues. This blog is designed, by way of users and enforcers, to cater to a certain type of individual.
I can go on and on about why, but let me give you 2 small examples, and then point in a direction.
1. I, pretty much, cannot write about firearms. There are quite a few local places that cater to firearms and firearms enthusiasts (ie hunters, shooters, rednecks etc.) but covering them locally would offend someone, whether it's firearms or stuffed animals or whatever. More than likely one of the docents.
2. After my last little restaurant review, I feel like I cannot write about restraurants. I understand that some folks are offended by my eating meat. That just happens to be a staple in my diet. I also understand that some folks are vegetarian. I am not one of these people, and never will be. Therefore I review a restaurant for what I ate, or will eat. So that people who have my taste will know where to go. Not so that vegetarians can wonder why they were left out.
If you want some kind of proof, that people feel this way, and that this blog does not (and maybe cannot) cater to everyone, take a look at the users signed up on S6's page. Then get back to me on that.
Like I said,
Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 9:03pm.If I reach out and offer support to people who are feeling like they're being bullied, how is that equal to me being blind? I'd really like to know. I'd like to know because I don't write something like that and not mean it. That was me volunteering to take something on that could prove to be time consuming, but that I think is needed here. There's really nothing I can do today about people who feel slighted in the past except to say: I'm sorry that happened. We should try to make sure it doesn't happen again to you or anybody else. I'm willing to help with that. That's really all I can do.
1. If you post a thread about guns, and it's not covered in violent imagery and it doesn't talk a lot about killing things, I will support you 100%. The problem as I saw it before was not that guns were being mentioned on the blog, it was when half of the content in one week was gun related. You've got to admit that's a bit much. You want to do a regular weekly local gun report, or review gun shops, or whatever? Do it, I got your back.
2. I enjoyed your restaurant reviews quite a bit and think you should start them again, despite the responses of one or two people. A vast majority of OlyBloggers enjoyed the content you created and are missing it now.
(edited for clarity)
If anyone is offended or otherwise dislikes guns or meat eating, they are completely free to not read those threads. If someone wants to respond, a good way to do that would be by creating their own content, not detracting from the hard work of others.
Seriously?
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 9:56pm.I point something out, and you poop on it. I'm glad you would be behind me, but I'm fairly sure that you would be it.
How am I detracting from the hard work of others? This is the first time I have posted in some time now, and the time before that was quite awhile ago. This post was in response to something that I feel needed attention, and since it was brought up.....
The blindness is in regards to the docents and what they allow/do not allow on the site, or what they feel is offensive/non-offensive. It has nothing to do with your outreach.
With that I'm done. I made my point, and I really don't feel like arguing.
Norm,
Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 10:44pm.Was the problem many gun
Submitted by Mary Baker Eddy on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 10:03pm.Is the current problem too many pictures of vandalism and flyers. My computer crashes too many times.
Well,
Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 10:50pm.yup
Submitted by enpen on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 11:52pm.Yes, we have a content submission problem. There are probably multiple reasons for this: feeling uncomfortable putting content out there that anyone can criticize, consumption takes time but creation takes more time, only get on at work where writing something is difficult, brain freezes at the keyboard, etc., etc., etc.
Sorry all of the photos make your computer crash. After the existence of the poster calendar is more common knowledge then I'll stop posting the two days of flyer photos on the front page. Not that this does you any good now, but I'm working with an utilitarian calculus in mind.
"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe
Well join the club Norm
Submitted by Guglielmo on Tue, 07/08/2008 - 11:42am.You know, I feel like I cannot write about how guns influence public health and safety. I don't go there anymore because a few people have a huge problem with that kind of talk. I have a hard time blaming Olyblog for that though.
Edit: That was a little bit "poopy" of me (and reminded me of my mother). But the point remains the same. We will see these kinds of conficts in a community that has a wide collection of characters. From vegans who cannot swallow your meat-eater reviews to gun toters who cannot swallow my policy wonking. To me it reflects the level of diversity on Olyblog...a good thing. You'll be able to post all you want about meat on S6's site and never worry about one single complaint. Ever. That certainly has its merrits, but it comes at a cost. Without friction, Norm, none of us would be alive.
I understand that Vegans are
Submitted by Mary Baker Eddy on Tue, 07/08/2008 - 1:15pm.The difference as I find it pertains to management. Neither side will be told to piss off and find someplace else to express themselves. Consequently there would be little opportunity for moderators to display the double-standard which many are in denial about.
I'm sorry.
Submitted by Rob Richards on Tue, 07/08/2008 - 1:45pm.Being welcome and actually BEING there
Submitted by Guglielmo on Tue, 07/08/2008 - 2:18pm.