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Sorry Ehvergreen, but Leopard is the new king of the jungle.

Submitted by Rob Richards on Fri, 10/26/2007 - 9:00am.

October 25, 2007

State of the Art

Apple Offers New Goodies in Leopard System

By DAVID POGUE

If you’re a computer company, what on earth do you add to the sixth annual version of your operating system?

It’s not as though there are any glaring holes left. Nobody is still crying out for a better way to organize photos.

That’s the challenge that Apple faced in developing Mac OS X 10.5, code-named Leopard, which goes on sale tomorrow after a four-month delay. Price: $110 online, $190 for a family pack, or free on a new Mac. As Steve Jobs points out, for that money, “everyone gets the Ultimate version.” (That’s a swipe at Microsoft, which sells Windows Vista in at least five versions costing as much as $330 for the Ultimate).

Microsoft had it a little easier with Vista, because everybody knew what Windows needed: better security. Maybe Mac OS X is harder to hack, or maybe the virus writers consider the Mac’s 8 percent market share too piddling to bother with. But in its six years, Mac OS X hasn’t experienced a single virus outbreak or spyware infestation.

So Apple’s mission in Leopard was to make us aware of needs we never knew we had — something Apple is usually good at.

Cough, Cough, Cough

Submitted by Ehver Green on Fri, 10/26/2007 - 9:06am.

Apple has its place in the market, it's just behind Microsoft. Did you read our earnings announcement yesterday? Our stock is at a 5 year high today and we had our best first quarter since 1999. It's going to be a big year at Microsoft. 23% revenue growth year over year. We're hiring...

We don't play in the jungle, we play in the market.

well,

Submitted by Rob Richards on Fri, 10/26/2007 - 9:27am.

if all you care about is money and not quality then, congrats. Seriously though, has there been kind of sting in regards to the European anti-trust developments, I understand if you can't comment.

You've got to be more

Submitted by Ehver Green on Fri, 10/26/2007 - 9:48am.

You've got to be more open-minded if you are going to enter into dialog about money and quality with me. I've beaten that horse back to life - been hit too many times.

Microsoft did withdraw their last two EU appeals. It's time to move on. We don't need to waste time and energy on someone like Neelie Kroes. At least Monti was fair and not on some vendetta. US companies are often the focus of EU oversight given the socialistic view of Western Europe. GE/Honeywell comes to mind.

We also have renewed oversight interest from the California Group (a group of states led by California who want the current settlement to go past the November 12th deadline). It includes a handful of states but many of the other states in the settlement are satisfied with our compliance. Just more of the same - competing in court rather than the marketplace. It's the only way Sun, Oracle, and others can complete. We don't really have pure competition with Apple. In fact, if I remember correctly, the most popular Windows program this year has been iTunes.

I honestly didn't understand

Submitted by Rob Richards on Fri, 10/26/2007 - 1:14pm.

I honestly didn't understand most of what you just said. The jist I get is that you are the big kid on the playground, and the only way the little kids can survive is by telling on you.

Itunes. Yeah, just about everybody I know uses it. Across all platforms.

itunes = king

Submitted by Norm on Fri, 10/26/2007 - 1:22pm.

'nuff said.

Hackers aren't interested

Submitted by Norm on Fri, 10/26/2007 - 9:15am.

When the last mac os came out it was hacked in multiple ways within hours. They had a big article about it on cnn or 20/20 or something. Hackers just aren't interested, but they are just as capable. Apple has it easy because they go unnoticed.

And the plus for us - we get

Submitted by Ehver Green on Fri, 10/26/2007 - 9:28am.

And the plus for us - we get better and better. Rob and I have discussed the Microsoft vs. Apple phenomenon on several occasions.

I don't own any Apple products, not even an iPod, but I do recognize their contribution to computing in general. Their contribution to mobile music players (and software) was/is revolutionary and they got it right the first time. We're still struggling with Zune. But, what haven't we struggled with?

Very few MSFT products are successful v1 releases. Google has adopted a very similar model but they got smart about it and branded v1 and even v2 releases as beta where as we rolled out as shipping products. It's a whole different world now that software as a service is taking hold. Google came around at the right time. Had they been around in the days of shrink-wrap, who knows.

You are WRONG

Submitted by paisleyboxers on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 10:15pm.

First of all. This isn't slashdot. So I'm going to save my fanboy crap for the kids.

Windows VISTA.

It's not just a pile.. it's poorly conceived.

We'll start off with the current "Employee" who is not a true coder I am assuming. EG.
EG: You claim all sorts of adoption and superiority I am guessing at.. but the real question lies here..

Your friends (in the 7 dept) are HARD HARD HARD at work on "Windows Seven". You have a really good inside view of why.

VISTA didnt get the whole -worse-than MEllenium reptuation because its some sort of wild and funy rumor. Vista is like what happens if the MSFT marketing dept screws the guys who wrote the first Zune os.

Nothing you can trump or write about is going to help a VISTA argument. Its out. Noone with a -slight- of tech saavy uses that PILE. The only time we do testing with it at my software company.. is in VMWARE.. and thats a task we leave for the prison convicts.. as a worse punishment than the solitary they would have been glad to enter.

If you don't like the FACT that OS 10.5 is puuuuure Unix under the hood .. ar that it has a smaller footprint and stronger app base that never gets bogged down any spyware/virus apps (ahem.. WIN32 code.. wtf is that still in there for..?).. then talk about the gates foundation .. or anything WORTH mentioning..

And for the record? I'm a huge hyppocrate for writing this stuff.. because I use Suse 10.1 (that's right.. i PAID for my linux distro).. and it can do NO wrong for my needs. When I want to play games? I go to an XBOX.

When i want to put on a hat with a spinny propeller.. and call clown cars in.. I throw on the Windows Admin satchel and start preforming VooDoo. Because thats what you do when you enter the cloneland of MicroSerf code.

Windows made sense for a couple years before OSX matured. And grew up and kept growing up.

Windows is the prepubescant kid who cheated through school.. and now has to have a deliverable for the captive audience of people who got stuck buying in. This kid has an uncomfortable erection.. no tricks left.. and a crazy CRAZY man at the steering wheel.
Problem? No deliverable until Windows Seven. In Five years or more.

And the kids gonna have to keep selling that deliverable.. and continue to have people not "call back" after bad dates.

How about us clods that

Submitted by Norm on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 10:35pm.

How about us clods that don't do software testing? I like my games, and the games I like don't come in the xbox version. I'll admit vista is a bit clunky, compared to xp, but it's really been pretty stable so far. I'd think about buying a mac, or running linux, once the pc gaming industry starts designing their games for them.

Show me

Submitted by Rob Richards on Fri, 10/26/2007 - 9:29am.

I'd like to see that article, I've heard different things on this. I've heard that one virus was created that worked on a mac and that it was an inconvenience at most. Ehvergreen, I'm sure you could weigh in here.

Nope, I don't follow Mac

Submitted by Ehver Green on Fri, 10/26/2007 - 9:51am.

Nope, I don't follow Mac attacks, at all.

EDIT: A quick search reveals -

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-6046197.html

That's the one

Submitted by Norm on Fri, 10/26/2007 - 10:18am.

Thanks EG, I couldn't remember exactly how it went. Rob, c'mon I'm a fan of apple, why would I blow smoke up your skirt about it? No OS is impervious to attack.

Am I getting the idea?

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Fri, 10/26/2007 - 10:03am.

Is someone trying to say Apple isn't worried about money and profits?

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

If It Doesn't Have Intel Inside...

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Fri, 10/26/2007 - 10:30am.

it isn't worth buying anyway! LOL!

Momma needs a new pair of shoes in Italy! Won't you please support my needs by buying Intel! LOL!

"Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence." - Unknown

Well

Submitted by Norm on Fri, 10/26/2007 - 10:35am.

I believe the new mac mini's have an intel processor in them. In case you are in the market to buy a new computer.

all macs

Submitted by enpen on Fri, 10/26/2007 - 12:44pm.

I'm pretty certain that every Mac made from hereon out (or at least until the next product agreement) has an Intel processor.

You're not a chip designer..

Submitted by paisleyboxers on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 11:00pm.

What do you know about code execution on ex-dee-six chips as opposed to PPC or even ARM? Have you watched Hello World pass through a debuggers output?

I love intel too though.. haha.

Friendblog: None are known to exist since bloggers don't have friends.

Just Got A New Laptop In April!

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Fri, 10/26/2007 - 11:05am.

I only said that because my hubby is a Principle Software Engineer for Intel Corp in Dupont!

But let me add, I got an Lenovo (IBM) R60 Thinkpad and the battery went bad in it. So I called IBM in Atlanta, GA yesterday at 4:15 PM our time and they had my new battery DHL'ed to my front door at 9:45 AM this morning! Now THAT'S customer service!

"Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence." - Unknown

?

Submitted by enpen on Fri, 10/26/2007 - 12:42pm.

Pardon my confusion here, but IBM mailed you a new battery? The Thinkpad line, as you said, is now a Lenovo property. IBM sold it to Chinese owned Lenovo in 2004.

We got....

Submitted by oysterpreserve on Fri, 10/26/2007 - 7:51pm.

We Got one of the first MacBook Pro's (apple) when they came out with the new Intel line. (yes, they all have Intel chips now). The batteries were all getting recalled, I filled out my form online around 10:00 pm Fri. and had a new battery by 8:00 am on a Sat. I was impressed!

Also I will hopefully be running the new Leopard by next week..... By girlfriends brother works for Apple ( he works on Quicktime for Windows) anyway he said he'll be sending us a free copy. Which I will be geeking out on!

Two Things

Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 10/31/2007 - 12:49pm.

IBM/Lenovo is a partnership. I don't know the low-level details but Lenovo is popular within Microsoft and we still deal with IBM.

Operating Systems - The Great Double Standard

My favorite part is the last comment:

Leopard is still OSX, an operating system that released ~6 years ago, which at that time was incompatable with alot of OS 9 apps and required people to dualboot. Leopard is OS X with a few bug patches and apps thrown on top. In the Windows world this would be called a service pack. Apple charges you for their service packs. Think about it.

Microsoft doesn't charge for Service Packs.

WRONG WRONG WRONG

Submitted by paisleyboxers on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 11:12pm.

Windows releases are still plagued with legacy code --still-- in non-point releases.

Windows vista still has a .... REGISTRY. You can't sell anyone on that being a good idea.

And what about Monad? What about WinFS?

Those NEVER HAPPENED.

Operating system upgrades are there to address issues and problems.. and fix things. but VISTA is the worst service pack EVER.

What about the naming scheme? And the thirty different releases?

for EG: Windows Vista Supreme Ultimate Super-Turbo Extreme Championship Edition!!!!

Who the hell made that crap happen?????

Friendblog: None are known to exist since bloggers don't have friends.

Hang to Apple buddy

Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 11:14pm.

We don't want ya.

A list.

Submitted by paisleyboxers on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 11:41pm.

WinNT.

then.. keeping alot of code..

came Win2000.

then a branch.. ----> XBOX. Using Modified Win2000 Code.
then ----> XBOX-360. Using a modified version of the XBOX os..
a modified version of the windows 2000 code with all borrowed
libraries from NT.

after 2000 server.. was XP.

A modified version of 2000.

2003 server came and and still contained unchanged code from NT deep inside.

Server 2008.. is a modified xp/Vista/2000 Hybrid.. and might honestly be the best operating system microsoft has ever released in the History of its corporate existence.

And VISTA. Well. Vista.

Please say windows Seven is going to be different code.

Cause everything else is copies of bad homework.

Sorry EG,From a PC Gamer's

Submitted by NWarty on Wed, 10/31/2007 - 2:40pm.

Sorry EG, From a PC Gamer's perspective and as much as I love my flight simulator, MS/ACES really blundered with FSX. Big time. The whole FSX/Vista/SP1/SP2/Acceleration/DX10/Driver issue and fiasco has been like watching a trainwreck happen. And this was to be the flagship game for DX10 and Vista? Pfft. Sorry to rant and go off topic. Just really frustrated as a gamer with the group in Redmond when I see "Yay MS!" posts.

No problem. I'm not in

Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 10/31/2007 - 2:51pm.

No problem. I'm not in this space so I really have no idea what you are talking about. I deal with OS's, specifically, Active Directory. I don't even own an XBOX 360 and I have an 8 year old son!

I can ask Phil Taylor (Aces Program Manager) any specific questions you may have about Aces under Vista/SP1. Feel free to shoot me a PM with detailed yet precise questions you'd like to have answered.

Active Directory...

Submitted by paisleyboxers on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 10:33pm.

Is what happens when you force a hyperactive hypoglycemic kid to snort a pound of pixie-stix and throw him into a ball-pit filled with mayonnaise.

It's ugly and hard to clean up. And if you want to follow his poor direction? You have to also snort the chemical dyed sugar and carry a large spool of chicken wire to sort out the f'ing madness.

Active directory is as bad of an idea as using a heirearchal database to manage tagged credit card entriies in plaintext with XML.. over WEP. It's plain assed stupid.

Friendblog: None are known to exist since bloggers don't have friends.

You are an idiot

Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 11:13pm.

If you knew what you were talking about I might listen. Your two liner up there might just be the dumbest argument I've heard against Active Directory. Tell me Mr. Smarty, what directory would you implement to manage a corporate entity?

First of all

Submitted by paisleyboxers on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 11:22pm.

You probably don't know that bigger companies concerned about PCI and SOX use midrange and Mainframe based computers.

They do. And although I'm not an IBM fan.. they make the formats we all have to comply with.

And none of those things are any nicer than other things. But if gonna have little windows boxes running to talk to bigger machines .. active directory is there as a way to let children run around on the network.

No.

Submitted by DC on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 11:45pm.

I'm thinking you are just trying to stir up an argument. AD has an astonishing presence in small to midrange networks today. Regardless of what it was modeled after it's hard to argue that it is THE industry standard.

Please do try to argue that point though. I would like to see some data to prove that wrong.

The vast majority of the time, I've integrated open directory into an AD infrastructure for SSO. Not vice versa.

I'm not arguing Leopard isn't a step forward for Apple, but you can be sure I'll be using boot camp or Parallels because OSX is not as transparent as everyone claims it to be. I wish people would drop the zealotry on both sides and just realize these are all tools that have their own merit.

Thanks EG, and my apologies

Submitted by NWarty on Wed, 10/31/2007 - 2:58pm.

Thanks EG, and my apologies for coming off strongly. It's a passionate hobby :) Believe me, Phil's already been beat up enough over at avsim.com to last a life time. But fortunately this has been the first time in the FS series that ACES/MS has really communicated with the public. I know Phil is doing his best and thank goodness he has a thick skin. I believe that with Vista being delayed and the push for FSX for the holiday season, FSX was released WAY TOO EARLY. Therefore there were a lot of performance problems that needed to be addressed in a service pack, therefore taking away from the DX10 service pack. The snowballing effect was inevitable. My biggest issue has been with MS's marketing dept. regarding FSX.

I understand...

Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 10/31/2007 - 3:08pm.

...I know a thing or two about releasing early. It's no secret that our marketing teams can get ahead of development teams at times.

exactly

Submitted by paisleyboxers on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 10:43pm.

Read my first comment...

Friendblog: None are known to exist since bloggers don't have friends.

Keeping writing assebler

Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 11:14pm.

Keeping writing assembler code to print out Hello World - you might become really good at it.

Is that some type of stab at knowing goodcode?

Submitted by paisleyboxers on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 11:27pm.

Lemme guess Lemme Guess.. You probably LOVE your J++ C## and Silverlight mashups.. C'mon.. you not that that out of the water right?

Friendblog: None are known to exist since bloggers don't have friends.

Assembler

Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 11:30pm.

Is great to know if you're debugging or writing code in the HAL.

By the way

Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 11:19pm.

I will soon be running Leopard on my PC. See ya later Windows.

I also recently learned that the fastest windows machine you can buy is actually a Mac.

"Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." -Arundhati Roy

Buh

Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 11:25pm.

Bye.

Again, Rob, you make a claim and support it with no fact. Typical and predictable.

Sorry, here you go. Jerk.

Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 11:28pm.

"Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." -Arundhati Roy

Uh...

Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 11:35pm.

...a rag? C'mon, you can do better than that! Try looking at TPC numbers next time. I'm done with you. Mark my words. You simply aren't worth my time any longer.

Oh, Good.

Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 11:58pm.

I'll mark them. I understand that you love your sweet little job that allows you to live the American dream. I also understand your frustration at somebody having a different point of view than yours.

I also think it's pretty ridiculous that you think you win arguments by babbling in your geek jargon. I assume that your aggressive attitude is just your feeble attempt at getting back at the world for all the years of getting picked on in high school for being a nerd. I'm sorry that happened to you, it's not my fault, please don't take it out on me.

I like Macs because they're easier to use, plain and simple. I'm not interested in having some huge debate over this, and really don't want to hear any more of your blatantly biased opinions anymore. May King Jub-Jub at the bottom of the sea have mercy on your soul.

I like Macs because they're

Submitted by DC on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 11:59pm.

I like Macs because they're easier to use, plain and simple.

Well, that's just like, your opinion man.

The End.

Submitted by Rick on Fri, 11/02/2007 - 6:52am.

Too much bad will on this thread. This is not a place to insult each other.

When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow

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