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Submitted by Chia on Sun, 01/27/2008 - 10:09am.
I promised some information in regards to speciesism in another post and am following through with that today. A wonderful resource for questions and additional information is Olympia Animal Rights(OAR) which can be contacted at olympiaar@gmail.com I am happy to offer additional information or suggested reading to those who wish it and am likely to refer other questions to OAR. Speciesism has been discussed on OlyBlog in context with sexism, for which a great resource is the book, The Sexual Politics of Meat by Carol Adams. This slide show offers an additional glimpse of Adam's work. Another context in which speciesism has been discussed is in relation to racism and I think that Breeze Harper does an excellent job discussing that at her Sistah Vegan Anthology Site. She mentions a book called The Dreaded Comparison by Marjorie Spiegel, which discusses racism and speciesism in the context of oppressor's privilege. It's a short read and I highly recommend it for those wishing to know more about how animal rights relates to social justice issues. Here is an anarchist's discussion of speciesism in Anthropological Basis and History of Anthrarchy. Some discussions of soy and protein: Being Vegan and Eating Soy: Myths, Truths, and Everything in Between by Christa Novelli, M.P.H. and The Protein Myth. Quinoa is another source of protein to check out. Thank you for your interest!
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black bear hunt
Submitted by contron on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 1:00pm.does anybody know if there is any organizing being done around this black bear hunt. according to this olympian article
there is going to be a black bear hunt in order to save some trees that belong to timber companies because the bears are killing the trees (?) by stripping bark and eating sugar from the inside. which seems like a lie and is funny because the timber company wants the right to kill the tree i guess. also, the article is weird because it mentions that the guy at the state who is authorizing the hunt is described as "meat eating and fur bearing" which also is weird to me. thanks.
Hi Contron!
Submitted by Chia on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 1:46pm.I think that the carnivore and fur bearing descriptors in the article refer to the wildlife that this particular manager manages. It's written in a confusing way and I had to re-read it a couple of times before understanding it.
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Nonviolence Includes Animals:
audio
"PETA President Ingrid E. Newkirk's address to the International Nonviolence Conference in Bethlehem"
Doesn't anyone here
Submitted by security_six on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 9:16pm.Read The Olympian? :-)
At any rate as a hunter I find the idea of harvesting these bears so some timber company has a few more trees repugnant. They are/were eating these sort of trees long before they werethought of as something to cut down and harvest. Poor logging practices makes this non issue an issue. Selective logging is a much better choice and would lessen the impact these bears have.
I may add it is probably too late to stop this hunt. Had I realized it was proposed how ever many months ago it was, I would have protested it. I may not think about getting involved in a regular season bear hunt now, as I feel these extra animals should not have been harvested.
One loves to posess arms, though they hope to never have occassion for them.
Thomas Jefferson to George Washington 1796
I'm so sorry that I haven't
Submitted by Chia on Sun, 02/24/2008 - 2:35pm.---------
Nonviolence Includes Animals:
audio
"PETA President Ingrid E. Newkirk's address to the International Nonviolence Conference in Bethlehem"
By protest I meant
Submitted by security_six on Sun, 02/24/2008 - 7:25pm.Write nasty letters and such :-) Thanks for checking. I don't do enough hunting to keep up on the special hunts and seasons like this one. I guess keeping an eye on the Fish and Wildlife website would be useful...
"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown
So if I read your post correctly...
Submitted by Tschida on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 5:14pm.One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
That's the impression I got too...
Submitted by security_six on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 9:19pm.This way of thinking struck me as odd to say the least. I'm glad someone else brought it up, as I gave up on trying to describe the reaction this got from me. Heck we're all entitled to a belief system though...
One loves to posess arms, though they hope to never have occassion for them.
Thomas Jefferson to George Washington 1796
Different level of respect
Submitted by Norm on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 11:07pm.Some folks (I'm not trying to put words in your mouth Chia, just slap me if I get too mouthy) hold the same level of respect for animals, that they do for humans....and not just dogs and cats. I have eaten many different kinds of game in my lifetime, but I'm not sure I could break down and eat a human. Some people just have that same level of compassion for species outside of their own.
I don't agree with the idea, but I certainly understand it, and try to show some respect because of that understanding.
Thank you, Norm.
Submitted by Mike on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 8:11am.for a thoughtful post.
Also, don't want to put words in chia's mouth, but for me, the moral equations are not that sexism, racism, specieism are equivalent, but that the practice is an ethical violation.
In that sense, if you are going to live a life consistent with a certain moral code, you would no more want to engage in specieism than you would in racism. They are both wrong. No further weighting of the relative wrongness is necessary if you are choosing right livelihood, right speech, right thinking etc. (8 fold path stuff that is fairly consistent with specieism, as I undertstand the two.)
In the sense of the eight fold path, there is a right path, off the path is off the path. Further consideration of anything but getting back on right path (like how far off the path is everybody else or am I? is a distraction, and off the path)
Thank You for Your Comments!
Submitted by Chia on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 10:29am.As stated in the post, my intention was to get information to those who want it. I've discussed Animal Rights (AR) with people for years and have discovered that my best strengths are in helping people to network to get the information they need and to provide sources of information, if desired.
For those who would like a greater understanding of speciesism, please mark Monday, March 24th, at 6:30pm on your calendars since the award winning film, Earthlings will be showing at Capitol Theater. Olympia Animal Rights is also planning to facilitate a discussion and I'd encourage anyone who wishes to, to participate! I'll post more as I know more.
To Norm and Mike: I'm delighted that you've decided to discuss speciesism and hope for you to feel encouraged to continue to do so! I'm not bothered at all that you chimed in here, much to the contrary. So, thanks :)
---------
Nonviolence Includes Animals:
audio
"PETA President Ingrid E. Newkirk's address to the International Nonviolence Conference in Bethlehem"
I find issue with
Submitted by security_six on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 11:07am.One loves to posess arms, though they hope to never have occassion for them.
Thomas Jefferson to George Washington 1796
right
Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 11:13am.I'd like to talk abou this.
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 11:38am.Ahh...
Submitted by security_six on Fri, 02/01/2008 - 10:34pm.Did not realize the context. At any rate though if animals can eat animals, why should humans be any different? Yes we are thinking creatures, but at the same time for many there is an inate desire to eat animal flesh, so why not? Would you force a vegan diet on a cat or dog? Would it be immoral for a dolphin to eat fish? Why is it immoral for a human to eat a chicken?
One loves to posess arms, though they hope to never have occassion for them.
Thomas Jefferson to George Washington 1796
Hey six...
Submitted by The Original Yoda on Fri, 02/01/2008 - 11:41pm....the answer usually given to your question is: because we know better.
I'm not saying I believe it, though I do believe that vegetarianism is the "highest option".
There are many reasons to be a vegetarian but the argument that we can eat without killing is pretty good.
Thank you
Submitted by security_six on Fri, 02/01/2008 - 11:49pm.Indeed, that is the answer usually given, however it really doesn't satisfy. I believe we have the choice certaintly, however I do not believe anyone can point to eating meat and say "this is totally right" or "this is totally wrong" To me the best way of looking at this matter is "this is right for me" or "this is wrong for me" The original post in this thread does a pretty good job of the "totally wrong" type of discussion and if nothing else turns me off further from wanting to listen to people who would preach vegan/vegetarian lifestyle.
Can a person honestly say because a human being chooses to exercise free will in choosing to eat meat for whatever reason they are bad? Or part of a sexual/racial oppressing class? That is the latest impression I am getting here which would probably make my mother laugh as she sat down to a chicken dinner...
We cannot eat without killing though. The same spirit that flows through animal life also flows through the rest of the world. Everything impacts everything. I may kill an insect so I can have a carrot. Taking the life of an insect is the same as taking any other life to me. I cringe when I have to scrape the bottom of my boat... but I know something else will eat what doesn't survive being removed from my boat, so I take some comfort in that cycle...
Maybe I just read too much Tom Brown... I dunno, but to me any living thing has the same level respect. I just think cows are tasty :-)
One loves to posess arms, though they hope to never have occassion for them.
Thomas Jefferson to George Washington 1796
Great Point!
Submitted by Chia on Sat, 02/02/2008 - 5:14am.I also know from previous experience that there are going to be people to whom information about just about any social justice issue, including animal rights, will appeal and I wanted to share this information in that context. I love to learn as much as I can about creating a world with less suffering and more compassion and find that sharing what I know keeps information fresh in my mind and also allows me the opportunity to learn things I didn't know before. As a strong introvert with a desire to learn as much as I can, especially about social justice, providing this information to interested parties fits well with my values and personality.
---------
Nonviolence Includes Animals:
audio
"PETA President Ingrid E. Newkirk's address to the International Nonviolence Conference in Bethlehem"