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Submitted by DC on Thu, 11/08/2007 - 2:02am.

STAY ON TOPIC.

The whole McMansion thing in the Thank you Meta thread is horrible. I think anyone who contributed to that trainwreck should really think about what they are trying to accomplish.

That topic was to thank Meta, period. It's not a place to recycle the tired left vs. right rut many of you like to argue.

I read that tonight and thought about how I would react if I were Meta.

"Oh how nice, a thank you thread... WTF... You jerks."

 

I've found myself not even wanting to log into this board and rather just observe anonymously. The only reason I do is to see what posts have had activity since last viewing.

Do you hear what I'm saying here Docents? This place kind of sucks. Be at our service! You need to do something. 

Is this site some sort of e-social experiment, to gauge what happens when people are joined without direction, structure or consequence?

My first posts here where only made after weeks of observing chaos from the sidelines and finally feeling like something had to be said.

Just a day or two ago, someone else registered just to make similar complaints to mine, and it seems like they were written off. Is anyone listening up there?

AT THE VERY LEAST YOU NEED TO KEEP DISCUSSIONS ON TOPIC. 

 

 

»

Yep.

It's a problem. The question is, what to do? As long as there's a baseline of civility, I'm not personally interested in policing the content of other people's posts.

That thread was a classic case of how conversations go wrong on blogs: one person says something mildly inflammatory, another person overreacts, and then we're off to the races. When docents have attempted to intervene in the past by inviting people to stay within certain parameters, the bloggers tend to attack the docents as being biased. For example, I think "McMansion" is just part of the English language, and not an insult. If I had made that contribution, I can guarantee that jstplnrny would have responded negatively, causing an even bigger mess. If other bloggers do the work of bringing the conversation around, it seems to be more acceptable (other bloggers are not perceived as authority figures). It seemed to me that others were able to make the relevant points.

If you have any suggestions about how to promote civil discussion, I'm all ears.


When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
»

I really don't see the problem.

If someone had posted a congratulatins Doug Mah blog, it would be somewhat unrealistic to expect that the thread would consist only of "Yes, congratulations Doug. Good on ya" comments No, it would quickly become a venue to discuss other feelings about the election. That is exactly what happend yesterday. Someone mentioned the pro-development leanings of Meta's opponent and it took off from there. Perfectly sensible evolution and you see it on threads every damn day. Then, because some people got hurt feelings, the thread turned into another meta-conversation about manners. Again, happens every day. Anyone who thinks we have a problem here need only read some comments at the Olympian's website to shift their perspective.
»

oh...

I didn't know we used the Olympian message boards as the yardstick to compare the rest of the internet to. Isn't there also a blog skool entry called "OlyBlog Is Not The Olympian"?

I don't think it's unrealistic that a conversation is expected to stay mostly on topic. Especially at topic as clearly defined as the "Thank you Meta" thread.

"Perfectly sensible evolution and you see it on threads every damn day."?

No, it's more tired conflict you see on threads every damn day.

If a discussion is derailed, people should be big enough to take it to another thread. Or a docent needs to insist on it.

In my mind, I think the docents need to take a more active role in moderating the forum.

People won't self moderate.

You are perceived as authority figures and there is a responsibility there.
»

Sorry it is so frustrating for you

I think it's asking way too much of the already beleagered docents to moderate in such a matter. If a topic is sufficiently compelling to enough commentors, it will very likely stay on thread. If not, I see no reason to treat it as a hostile action.
»

Perhaps...

People are using the blog comments exactly as they would like. Perhaps no further moderation of the comments is needed. Perhaps if you don't enjoy the comments and discussion going on you would just move to the next blog post or create your own. Perhaps you could offer alternative discussion points if you feel that the conversation is not going the way you like. Perhaps telling other people where they can say what they think is not your place, and at least one docent was clear on the fact that as long as the conversation maintains a certain level of respect or civility the conversation is open. We already have docents shutting down threads when they should not be closed. What we don't need is more of that, but rather less. Wouldn't you agree?

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

Perhaps...

Perhaps if you don't enjoy the comments and discussion going on you would just move to the next blog post or create your own.

Oh hey look, that's what I did here! 

Perhaps you could offer alternative discussion points if you feel that the conversation is not going the way you like.

I said two things in the Meta thread,

1. I think the derailed discussion should be taken elsewhere

2. Thanks Meta! 

Perhaps telling other people where they can say what they think is not your place, and at least one docent was clear on the fact that as long as the conversation maintains a certain level of respect or civility the conversation is open.

Tell me about what respect and civility means to you? Especially since the docents might be leaving that undefined. 

We already have docents shutting down threads when they should not be closed. What we don't need is more of that, but rather less. Wouldn't you agree?

I think there might be a couple steps missing when threads are being closed. I think it would be better if there was an attempt to rein the discussion back in. Then if the thread was closed give an explanation why. Set precedence.

»

I am not clear...

On if a discussion takes a turn you don't like OTHER people have to move it. The discussion should be open and flowing and essentially unrestricted. If it evolves into something obtuse it doesn't mean it needs to be moved. (Perhaps this is why a 'sub thread' moves to the right as it goes along.) You don't need to tell others to move or how to post. You moved your thread. Great! Why presume to tell others what to do? What does my personal definition of civility and respect have to do with you? How would my definition help you? Do you not know what they are or how to make use of those characteristics in your discussions? If someone uses poisoned courtesy with me, I don't care. There is still courtesy, isn't there? Name calling? Well as long as the names are not generally accepted as 'blue' or foul, I don't have any problem with that. I left that baggage behind when I was 20. Call me a Neocon? So what. I don't need to let it affect me. The only precedent that needs setting is that the threads are left absolutely alone unless threats are made, or foul language used. Thing like that, which are generally agreed to be egregiously outside of civil company. C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

Thanks for sharing that DC.

Thanks for sharing that DC. I think the docents have kicked this around frequently, but Rick put it pretty well up above. I don't blame them either, it feels "wrong" to bonk someone on the head when they aren't really stepping out of line, they are just being insensitive. I think a lot of that goes around though, we can call folks on it, or not, but I think they normally know that they are being insensitive.

»

I also think...

...we shouldn't accept "better than the Olympian" as a metric. We can create something that is qualitatively different here.


When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
»

In spite of the few negative spots

We can create something that is qualitatively different here.

I think it already has been creative. Sometimes we bark too much, sometimes we need to act a little different, but on the whole I think we, olyblog as a whole, are truly something special.

»

I only mentioned the Olympian

because DC's description of Olyblog was sounding more like the Olympian than Olyblog. The Olympian is NOT a standard by which I would measure the value of Olyblog comments.
»

it's funny

because I've never spent any time over at that other site everyone likes to talk about...

I call it as I see it.

»

Well without the experience

there is no perspective. Can you describe other sites that operate in the way you describe? Perhaps there are models we can examine.
»

Sure...

»

I remember that. Thanks

But I was looking for an example of another website where something that actually takes place. For instance, I know dailykos has a user rating system that can be used to make certain comments disappear.
»

Are you ...

Are you asking someone to 'demonstrate' something? C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

Ahh

Digg, reddit, ArsTechnica, Boing Boing, the list goes on... I think most of the big sites continue to grow because of consistency and structure.
»

I see. Thanks

Discovered Google Sketchup while checking out Boing Boing. Cool.
»

Check out the Gadget Blog on

Check out the Gadget Blog on there, it's full of really neat stuff.

 Also, here's one of my favorite places on the net:

 http://www.kk.org/cooltools

 It's like the best gift giving guide ever.

»

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