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Submitted by wildleaf on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 1:27pm.
This report says that we are the biggest police state in the world. It also points at systemic racism. Link.
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Seems to me...
Submitted by chad360 on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 1:55pm....that there is little to dispute or apologize for..."it is what it is"...and it is a big issue.
Being a "world leader" of prison culture supports my view that the US is a "narco-control" culture that benefits little (if at all) for the criminalization of non-violent crimes.
BTW: your post seems a little hostile (almost baiting?) "I will be interested in hearing the police apologists interpret this one. My guess is they will move instantly off topic and start into patriot mode. Let's see..."
I agree
Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 2:17pm.Please Give Us Your Interpretation
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 2:18pm.about what you think it says about this country.
"A point of view is only a view from a point..." ~ Unknown
I will if you will
Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 2:24pm.I Asked You First!
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 2:33pm.LOL!
"A point of view is only a view from a point..." ~ Unknown
Here are the possibilities
Submitted by wildleaf on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 2:40pm.Two possibilities for what this means. One, our country is made of criminals and black males are genetically inclined to commit more crime. Or that the system is racist and we live the most oppressive country in the world.
The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com
One, our country is made of
Submitted by The Fire Inside on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 4:16pm.I don't think black males are more "genetically inclined" to commit more crime. I think people who are in a poor economic situation are, though.
Just riddle me this, Batman: Have you been outside of the United States and Canada for any prolonged period of time?
For that matter, have you ever tried getting off at an unfamiliar exit on the freeway in the Greater Los Angeles area and found yourself in a place where everyone - including the people living there - know you don't belong?
I have zero idea what your domestic and global experience is, but I hope you're not making these statements while having been in only a classroom or saying "I read about it in a book."
I think he's referring to the vastly greater probability
Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 4:41pm.Yeah,
Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 2:42pm.Hmm. This makes me glad to
Submitted by ashley on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 2:59pm.It isn't about being hostile although...
Submitted by wildleaf on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 2:28pm.I decided to edit my post. It was baiting and immature.
The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com
I prefer comments to remain
Submitted by ashley on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 2:57pm.I prefer comments to remain civil, but it's generally best to proffer your ideas, rather than asking for someone else's while trying to constrain how they respond. Telling people how not to respond is the fastest way to redirect energy from your content.
This study contains some very disturbing information with which I had some degree of familiarity. I am trying to imagine if one in every 9 of my male friends was imprisoned- but instead I don't know anyone in jail. The degree to which we can pretend this doesn't touch our lives is appalling and further demonstrates the systemic racism and classism of this system. The human and capital costs are incredible, and the entire issue points to so many levels of failure- discrimination in the passage of laws, the enforcement of laws, and in sentencing. I know that we could analyze many more issues in terms of education, class, opportunity, drug policy, and many others.
A tidbit that I always found fascinating-- I've had some professors mention (generally in passing) that our incarceration rates are very intertwined with our employment rates. Imagine how many other jobs would have to be created to employ the combined populations of incarcerated people, college students, and the military-- they all keep large numbers of people out of the civilian workforce. It seems to me that several relationships could be at play-- that lack of opportunity and already existing unemployment issues spur our incarceration rates to increase, and that our incarceration rates also disguise our true rates of un- and under-employment while creating a huge bureaucratic structure which generates jobs and capital through increased supervision, law enforcement, prison construction, and especially the privatization of prison services-- so this process directs the flow of money in a very specific direction.
The WashPost report states that while imprisoning criminals slightly decreases the rates of crime, it can have less of an effect than the fluctuation in employment rates. Sounds like criminalization of systemic and persistent poverty is a huge issue here.
This is also interesting: "Many state systems also send offenders back to prison for technical violations of their parole or probation, such as failing a drug test or missing an appointment with a supervisory officer. A 2005 study of California's system, for example, found that more than two-thirds of parolees were being returned to prison within three years of release, 40 percent for technical infractions." Carlos Marantes with the Comite Pro-Amnestia General y Justicia Social recently spoke at Evergreen and mentioned the increase in immigration detentions and deportations for administrative violations such as the technical violations mentioned here. I don't have a fully developed thought there but was struck by the parallels.
These numbers have nothing to do with cops.
Submitted by Rob Richards on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 2:25pm.As I said on another related thread...
Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 3:10pm.We rely too heavily on punishment, when there are other, cheaper ways we can reduce crime. These steps would reduce incarceration rates immediately:
Everyone of these measures could be evaluated to see if they create an unacceptable risk to the public.
Long-term solutions would incorporate proven (to reduce criminality) cost-effective programs that focus on infants, children, youth, and families:
There are also in-prison and community programs for offenders that have been shown to cost-effectively reduce criminal recidivism. Many Americans, however, seem to think these approaches are too "soft on crime." I hope that knowing 1 in 100 Americans is behind bars sparks some introspeciton.
I agree
Submitted by wildleaf on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 3:20pm.I hope so to. I'm truly scared about the direction of this country. I don't want to live in a police state. I want freedom and equality and justice.
The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com
Possibilities
Submitted by Rob Richards on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 3:38pm.I think we all can agree that your first statement is not true, so I’ll skip it.
As far as the system being racist, you’ll get some heat for making a generality like that. It’s a hard pill to swallow for many that our system is anything but just. I also believe that this statement is untrue. In my opinion racism is a species to classism’s genus. Black folks have, in America, been in economic dire straits since emancipation. The American dream was never offered to them, and never will be especially now that Free Market and Monopoly Capitalism have almost completely destroyed it.
1 in 26 black males are incarcerated. Why? If you had children with empty bellies at home and no job prospects, what would you do? Is it wrong for a person to feed their children by any means necessary? Wouldn’t any of us do the same? You’re lying to yourself if you think you wouldn’t, in my opinion.
To me this is a matter of civilization technology. We have advanced by leaps and bounds in the last 100 years. The arts, sciences, computers, music, you name it, it’s always evolving. Except when it comes to our justice system, we’re still stuck in the past there. We haven’t really made any remarkable strides in justice since we stopped torturing everybody, as opposed to just some today. Is locking someone up in a cage for years really the way every crime should be dealt with? Shouldn’t there be crimes, such as many victimless crimes, that some form of rehabilitation would work better than being forced to stick your nose in the corner and think about what you’ve done? It seems so silly to me that every crime has the same kind of punishment; jail, fines, probation. Steal a car? Jail, fines, probation. Chop up your grandmother? Jail, fines, probation. Get caught with a joint in your pocket? Jail, fines, probation. You see where this is going.
If you look up some restorative justice programs in the country you’ll see a new approach. It’s crime prevention through community building, and it works better than jail. We have to make a change, too much potential is locked away and wasted for us to continue on the path we’re on.
While I believe that class plays a powerful role in
Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 5:25pm.America, it doesn't explain why it can be hard for a black man to catch a cab in some cities, why "black-sounding" prospective renters are told the apartment has already been taken, or why a well-to-do black man wouldn't be allowed to play at certain golf courses not so long ago. Class explains those things about as well as it explains sexism and homophobia. I believe racism transcends class but the consequences are particularly brutal when race and class intersect. See what I mean Mr. Zinn?
Yes, we are rather unimaginative in our approach to crime. Why does that seem like such a uniquely American characteristic compared to our industrialized western sister states? That is a profoundly interesting question to me.
Did you just call me Howard Zinn? Thanks, I think.
Submitted by Rob Richards on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 5:44pm.Why can't a black man catch a cab? Why are black renters turned down? Why couldn't a black man join a country club? I think it's because there are socio-economic factors at play. Black people are poor, they commit crimes because of it, and cabbies don't want to get mugged. Black people are poor and therefore are high risk tenants and are lied to and turned down. Single moms are given the same treatment no matter what color they are. The country club example fits your point better, rich white men are elitist, racist, sexist, classist assholes.
Sometimes I really hate what-ifs, but, imagine black folks had been given a fair shake after emancipation, economically speaking, and were given all of the benefits of the 20th century and the American Dream that once was. Would we even be having this conversation?
Not quite so chicken-and-egg
Submitted by a.future.with.n... on Sat, 03/01/2008 - 3:16am.but close! Vijay Prashad wrote a fantastic book called "Everyone Was Kung Fu Fighting" about the cross cultural trade between eastern Africa and the Asian sub continent. It examines the historical roots of racism as cultures were exposed to each other for the first time.
It's a pretty commonly held belief that racism has been some sort of eternal institution, like it's been around forever. Prashad pretty much tears that apart. Part of his analysis is of the racial history of slavery. Prior to European led African slavery, all forms of slavery were class based. All of them. In every culture. I had a hard time accepting that at first but Prashad is an amazing researcher. His sources are pretty indisputable.
Anyway, the intersection of class and race really began in this country almost totally around slavery. This is not to say that racism didn't exist before 250 years ago, but it certainly existed very differently. Most, if not all, racial biases were created around the ideas of nationalism. The French found the Algerians inferior less because of their race than because of their national and cultural differences. It's a subtle, but very significant difference.
It seems that the discrimination of whole races really began when it became profitable to discriminate from "within the ranks" so to speak. You could almost view the beginnings of modern racism as a form of internal colonization, as opposed to the commonly held view that racism is an outward fear of the other.
Race and class ARE related, but not in an unending cycle. The concept of racial superiority was definitely born out of class differences.
You're closer to the mark here, by miles...
Submitted by DrewHendricks on Sat, 03/01/2008 - 7:31am.We still (the royal "we") practice racism in our institutions in part because those institutions were born from Chattel Slavery. The slave patrols, papers for identity, permissions to travel (passports) are all relics of when humans were owned as property. The higher rate of incarceration, the interest in supervising "black" and "brown" men and women ("Bad Neighborhoods"), even when they are middle-income people who conform to "correct" speech and dress, is an example of this.
But there is a hidden classism, which is evidenced by the Redneck Joke - and this is what lays it all bare for me. Cuz Ahm a Riyd Neck.
There is no shame, no sensitivity, for calling someone a Red Neck. All other racist jokes begin the same way... the teller peeks over both shoulders to see if it is "safe" to open up. But a good Red Neck joke is always welcome, in mixed company. Whole gags, even comedy routines are based on this. This lack of shame is telling.
But there is no category in the index cards of the incarcerated for twang in the voice, or the degree of burn or melanin development on the shoulders and neck of a person. There isn't a box marked "White Trash," yet we all know exactly what I mean when I say that.
So I can't even cite statistics for what I'd like to prove - that inferiority is being multiplied along a thousand faults, that fundamental ideas underlying what we are taught is "normal" or "acceptable" are leading us to the active surplussing of human lives, for the enrichment of ever fewer people. I can show a concentration of wealth, but my incarceration rate as a "white" person looks low, statistically, until I think about all the boys I grew up with. Larry is dead - heroin; John S. joined the military and now designs safety systems for nuclear warheads. He's the most economically "successful" and he's taking part in a purely genocidal industry. Joe joined the military, too - I forget his MOS. Scott sells seed for Cargill. Kevin still tries to farm, and makes a go of it (for now) because he's also hooked into the corporate farming system. Matt, Chris, Stuart, John C, and most of the rest of them went to prison, or at least jail. Dave avoided jail barely, and managed to get out of rural America and into Cascadia. I lost track of him 7 years ago, though. He could be back inside.
As our economic elites shrink our jobs base, and export it to places where union organizers can be fired without cause, labor here becomes surplus. Those who can't "cope with change" become surplus. And the nitpicky differences we find to justify that crap multiply endlessly, until we're arguing over "Ebonics" rather than class. Because it couldn't just be that our social order is built on the predation of human beings for profit.
Expulsions from the United States increased threefold from 2006-2007. Welcome to Novo Ordo Seclorum.
Income inequality and incarceration
Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 7:07pm.On average, the greater the income inequality in a given country, the higher the incarceration rate. The following plots show the relationship between income inequality (measured by the Gini Coefficient) and incarceration rates in the United States, Western Europe, and the Commonwealth Countries. The higher the Gini Coefficient, the greater the income inequality.
Dropping the USA, because it is such an outlier, the following plot shows the rather close relationship between incarceration and income distribution. The relationship holds when you include the USA.
Source: my analysis of CIA (Gini) and World Prison Brief (incarceration rates) datawait a minute
Submitted by enpen on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 9:05pm.It holds when you include the U.S.? By that plot shouldn't the U.S. either have a much higher Gini Coefficient or a much lower incarceration rate?
"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe
I only meant that the
Submitted by Guglielmo on Sat, 03/01/2008 - 9:22am.Agreed, nothing to do with cops
Submitted by security_six on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 11:37pm.But a flawed justice system and a voting population that keeps pushing "tough on crime" bills. Also, this IIRC reflects JAIL populations, which could be as little as staying in a week for not paying a ticket or something. I do not know what they use to factor jail population...
"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown
Thanks for pointing that out!
Submitted by Norm on Sat, 03/01/2008 - 12:42am.Naomi Wolf: The End of America
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sat, 03/01/2008 - 1:59am."They did this in Germany. They did this in Germany." ...
Here's more:
Democracy Now! Interview (youtube part one:) http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=EH5U-BPJor4
Democracy Now! Interview (youtube part two:) http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=v6A80r2HBkw
Project Endgame
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sat, 03/01/2008 - 2:52am.Beginning in 1999, the government has entered into a series of single-bid contracts with Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg, Brown and Root (KBR) to build detention camps at undisclosed locations within the United States. The government has also contracted with several companies to build thousands of railcars, some reportedly equipped with shackles, ostensibly to transport detainees.
According to diplomat and author Peter Dale Scott, the KBR contract is part of a Homeland Security plan titled ENDGAME, which sets as its goal the removal of "all removable aliens" and "potential terrorists."
...
[source]