I know that some people who are incarcerated do work outside of jail/prison.

For example, people who are convicted of DUI are sometimes allowed to leave jail for work. They are required to spend evenings and weekends at jail, but are also allowed to leave for doctors appointments, and such.

I have noticed this crew before too. I saw them all get off of the bus at the IT downtown station one time.

by the way, Did I see you driving the other day?

 Take the express bus to Tacoma, and then to Seattle.  

One loves to posess arms, though they hope to never have occassion for them.

Thomas Jefferson to George Washington 1796

Jade

It would be interesting to hear from people what they think could be added as "punishment" to make prison life more "effective".

Do we want people rehabilitated to re-enter society or should prison be the "last road" and if so, are you willing to pick up the tab for life in prison for someone selling pot?

This is one of those subjects like "taxes" where sweeping generalizations of change are made, yet no one seems to have direct solutions.

Gug....it's up to you.  Do we continue here, or start another thread?

How about comforts removed?

“America passes the critical gate test. Open the gate and see where people go – in or out. This is still the country people flock to.” George Will

"comforts" of prison?

I'm trying to get this conversation beyond sweeping generalizations.

it should be a place of punishment. If a person is believed likely to have a positive result from rehab, they can attend such a program after their sentence. But they don't get chance after chance.

In prison the inmates shouldn't have any creature comforts, only the basics of life. They also should have to work a reasonable number of hours a day, perhaps 10hrs, with one day off a week---maybe not.

Larry, you bring up a good point with respect to the drug laws of this country. We as a nation should reevaluate what law violations should be criminal, and what should be civil or legalized.

“America passes the critical gate test. Open the gate and see where people go – in or out. This is still the country people flock to.” George Will

I have seen some individuals leave the corrections system and change their life around. But that has been the exception, not the rule. Most, by the time they are in the State system, they are lost. Do I have a "study", nope, just experience.

As for dealing with folks in prison, I certainly understand the value of privleges. Some positive reenforcements are a good thing, but don't diminish the value of negative reenforcement. Just don't let the privleges become the norm, and then the privleges become more elaborate until they become the norm and......well you see.

“America passes the critical gate test. Open the gate and see where people go – in or out. This is still the country people flock to.” George Will

I was hoping you'd speak from your personal experience because I find that valuable.  Granted, it's not a "study", but that doesn't make it irrelevent to me.

On the other hand, we have yet to find a cure for cancer, and we continue the quest.  I'm not one to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

My personal thoughts on drug laws - I don't use drugs or alcohol as a personal choice.  I do understand that opening up the marijuana market would do two things - (1) cut out the black market and subsequent profit margins of black marketing and (2) cut into the sale of alcoholic beverages.  I personally think that there are two stong lobbying efforts that will keep marijuana illegal in the United States for a long time to come.

That we can agree on. I'm just not sure rehab works all that well, particularly as one becomes more hardened in their criminal behavior.

“America passes the critical gate test. Open the gate and see where people go – in or out. This is still the country people flock to.” George Will

I believe the simple use of illicit drugs, or the abuse of prescription drugs should be decriminalized. I believe the trafficking of illicit drugs (and prescription drugs) should be a crime still. Also, crimes committed to further a drug habit (simple use) should have stronger penalties, i.e. burglary, robbery, theft, etc.

For me, if a guy steals a package of meat from Safeway because he is homeless and hungry, is much different than a junkie stealing a package of meat to sell to get some drugs. Both should be accountable for their behavior, but the punishment should be much different.

“America passes the critical gate test. Open the gate and see where people go – in or out. This is still the country people flock to.” George Will

This world's crazy, give me the gun. -- P.J. Harvey

They have medical care, and for many this is an improvement from the outside, however there are no choices in terms of care providers. They are pretty much at the whim of staff in terms of whether they get medical care at all, or the quality of that care. In the most extreme cases, I have known pregnant women to have babies die, or women who died in the prison after repeatedly trying to get help for a problem that staff did not believe was serious, so they never saw a doctor in time. The typical story is not this severe, but does include things like not getting meds consistently, etc. Should this be part of a sentence? Personally, I don't believe in depriving someone of medical attention, no matter whether that person is a good person or not.

However, it is also worth noting that most of the prisoners I have known are drug addicts, not bad people. Punishment does not affect addiction, but treatment does. Most can't access the level of treatment they need, before or after incarceration.

Then there is recidivism. It seems the prison is often developing programs for a select few prisoners to participate in that offer greater privileges, support, education and opportunities. Every time it is the same story. Every program boasts better outcomes and significantly lower recidivism rates than the general, but because they cost money, they are not available to many in the prison. If we shortened sentences, and dedicated the savings in funding to supporting and helping people, we would eliminate a huge percentage of the prison population that really does not need to be locked up. With a little help, a lot of these folks are capable of really great things, but instead we focus on punishing the very very small population of truly dangerous criminals. This punishment is extremely expensive. The cost of long sentences, maximum security, and capital punishment far far outweighs that of drug treatment, vocational programs, and other things that have been shown to have a positive effect on all of us by reducing crime!

I won't go on, as I might never shut up, but it really seems to me like when people talk about what prison is like, most of the time they have no idea what it is like.