Who would Jesus bomb?
Christmas Day, 2009
Olympia Fellowship of Reconciliation Peace Vigil
Percival Landing, Olympia, Washington
War is immoral. All war begins with aggression. Aggression is immoral. Military aggression is widely considered immoral, and there are numerous international legally binding treaties established against war of aggression. It is probably unanimous amongst international political bodies that aggression is immoral and illegal. How could it not be? If stealing is illegal, if rape is illegal, if murder is illegal - then how could the most horrendous violence possible - the violence of a war of aggression - ever be considered legal.
Self-defense is one thing. A reasonable and proportional self-defense against immediate attack. But the wars of the United States of America are a different beast. The wars of the USA are not truly self-defense - nor a legitimate protection of "national interest." What the wars of the USA defend is the selfishness and the greed of the USA. The wars are an effort to further international policies of and practices of oppression and exploitation, under which the USA operates. The wars of the USA do not truly defend the national interest. The wars and international policies of the USA defend the corporate interest - the interest of the most influential and powerful (typically multi-national) giant corporations.
War is immoral. For good reason. War is the worst violence known to humanity. War is waste. It is oblivion. War is destruction defined.
People and nations have a right to defend themselves. But people and nations do not have a right - and in fact they betray the rights of all people - when they commit the crime of a war of aggression.
The wars of the USA are aggressive wars - imperialistic wars - wars designed to further the establishment of dominance - of global hegemony.
I believe that the imperialism of the USA (and the giant corporations that are the keepers of the US Government) is the worst violence known to modern humanity.
But this perspective - these truths - are very effectively kept away from the American people. These truths are hidden by a mutually reinforcing relationship between (among other things) the effects of a fear based and oppressive culture, and a media establishment that incessantly propagates the myth of American altruism.
There is a horrible myth in today's America, and to a lesser extent in today's world. It is the myth that America is the greatest nation on Earth - when in reality, the very opposite may be true. It may be more true that America is the worst nation on Earth - that America is the world's greatest perpetrator of violence and oppression - even to the point of wars of aggression, conquest and imperialism.
In America, terrible violence is part of mainstream culture. In America, there is a disparity in wealth between rich and poor that is maintained through systematic oppression.
In America, some people make profit when bombs are dropped. People profit when wars are waged. People profit from harmful, destructive, violent economic (and anti-economic) activities!
So, really, I ask you to please answer this question: who would Jesus bomb?
Comments
Gug said it best
Anti-war and anti-imperialism threads are kind of becoming Olyblog's pop-up ads
and I'm not trying to dig at your Rob. I'm just going to say "yeah" to this comment.
WWJB?
Wait.
Oh, Rob...
No no no
It's supposed to read, "Who's Jesus would you bomb?" Y'know, like Buddy-Christ, Jim Caviezeiaeeial, South Park Jesus, Willem Dafoe, etc.
It's really much easier once it's interpreted correctly.
Oh, now it actually makes sense.
Jesus wouldn't bomb anyone
Ba dump...
Oh,
War of Aggression, Imperialism, Violence
In war, the USA acts not to defend itself; but instead, the USA acts in war to defend its own selfishness - its own fundamentally violent and exploitative economic policies.
Maybe Jesus was killed because of opposition to the abuses, tyrannies, oppression and violence of the Roman Empire.
I was raised Roman Catholic. And although I don't consider myself to be a practicing Christian, I do celebrate the story of Jesus resisting the wrongs of the world.
I think that Jesus would not have bombed anyone - because of a realization that violence, even when justified and righteous - even when in self-defense - may have the tendency to perpetuate even more violence.
This is not to say that Jesus would not have acted in self-defense - I just think that bombing would not have been the tactic of choice.
There are other ways of defense that do not involve violence.
The polarized choice between fight and flight is a false dichotomy. There is a middle road, although it may not be the easiest. I believe it is the most worthwhile. That middle path is the path of peace - the way of nonviolence. Nonviolent resistance need not be passive. But it will also not fall for the notion that evil can be purged from the world by eliminating evil doers. Nonviolence realizes that evil is less of a personal problem, than a cultural problem - so that there is a need for overall cultural transformation - rather than the removal of a few problem individuals. Individuals can be restored. And the cultural can be changed.
Another world is possible. A better world. A world of peace and justice, light and love, truth and sustainability!
Robert Whitlock. Please stop.
ALright Rob. We get it. You post about this stuff everyday then comment multiple times on your own post. Please stop. It's obnoxious and repetitive and largely brainless.
You routinely reduce solid arguments against war to slogans, stripping them of their power and further impoverishing the anti-war "movement".
Who would Jesus bomb? I know I've seen that bumper sticker before, maybe at the time I even thought it was sort of clever, but having you beat the front page over the head with yet another heavy handed, ultra moralizing, patronizing generic anti-war post, I feel the need to finally say something.
At first I thought it might be an improvement to the site when you started driving all the weird conservatives away, although in all honesty I kind of liked security 6. Now I feel totally differently. I wish they would come back. At least then people posted SOMETHING. I check Olyblog about a tenth as much as I used to because it's always the same thing. Nearly the whole site has become a sounding board for you monotonous and constant anti-war stuff.
I was at every port, I am resolutely against the war, against capital, against all the stuff but I don't want to read your half cocked slogans about it nearly EVERY SINGLE DAY. I used to be able to get a sense for what was happening in Olympia before you started posting here. Now Olyblog is a desert, the odd relevant post here or there a splendid oasis of participation.
I know this is really negative, and you'll probably get your feelings hurt but I had to say it. I had to say it publicly. I really wish you'd just stop making these posts over and over and over again and instead just leave room for other people to post and participate on hyper local stories, like it used to be.
People call this site Olyberd. Jesus, I'VE called the site that. Olyblog still has a bunch of great people posting A Fire Inside is over seas and contributing, a precious window into a different perspective. Laurian is obstinate and often funny and usually makes a good point. Guglielmo (I probably spelled that wrong), anyway, every post he makes is solid gold. Norm has come back a bit. ODT is here, and there's new people, Daisy Quay, Indylympia Jones.
I'm asking you to back off and make some room for others. Please? Please Robert Whitlock? Please, please please stop. Please.
Thanks for Sharing Your Opinion of Me and My Posts on OlyBlog
Hi user with name a.future.with.no.future, thank you for sharing your opinion here.
I will consider what you have said here.
I think it is important to point out some of the aspects of our society, and I'm sorry that that may be bothersome or seem repetitive to you. I think it's important because there are a lot of people who really don't understand that the USA is founded in violence, and is indeed a very violent society. A lot of people think America is a land of freedom - but they don't realize that it is only an artificial freedom - and available only for a privileged few, and it is also dependent on oppression for many, and violence.
So I think it is important to ask the questions like, "Who would Jesus bomb."
I think Jesus was an interesting figure.
Additionally, I would encourage you to approach your criticism differently in the future. There is really no point to act in a way that is hurtful toward other people. People hurting each other is what has gotten our society into this horrible place as it is. So please, in the future, I encourage you to consider taking people's feelings into account before offering criticism.
If my post affected you negatively - tell me about it. Because it doesn't feel good to be told (even by someone who is anonymous, someone that I don't know) that either 1) I, or 2) my behavior, is obnoxious, repetitive and largely brainless.
Have a good day, a.future.with.no.future, and you might consider answering the question yourself, just to step outside of your normal comfort zone. You also might consider the possibility that not all people think in the same way, or relate to the world in the same way, that you do. I think respect for differences is a virtue, and that it will be helpful toward the purpose of creating a future that works for all people.
Again, have a good day.
America's most successful performance art
What he said was this (and I would bet he stole it from someone else, but bear with me): He said; "America's most successful performance art is professional wrestling."
Really. That was it. (By the way, he was wrong - it's politics. But the point was made.)
It didn't take a long time for him to say it, and there was not much in the way of convincing to be done. I had participated in the wrestling spectacle as a viewer (pre-Hulk Hogan), and had (at 8 years old) actually believed that the men in those tights were really risking their necks in matches out there. Well, that part is actually fairly true. Many are badly injured, some even killed - but the fact is that the matches are 100% staged, the outcome is known in advance and the process is the whole show. They are not deciding the outcome in the ring, they are deciding the outcome as they write the show long before the men face off over the MC and growl at each other, long before the grand entrance, and long before the tights are tightened and the pectorals are oiled.
Many, many people take it seriously as a sport and I'll let you in on a secret: not all of them are 8 years old.
Why do I go on about this? Well, another way to look at the lesson is over here on this link: http://www.seattleweekly.com/columns/view/284118/
Still in the dark?
Well, let me say it thus: none protest so much as a guilty man convicted, none are so earnest as a new convert, none proclaim so stridently as the person avoiding his own demons. Not saying that couldn't apply to all of us at some point in our lives, just saying that for everyone around someone when they are doing this, it's eye-rolling bad times. Try watching a wrestling match when you're fully aware that it is not real, and it just does not pull as much as when it "was real." In fact, it can get downright depressing. Now repeat that experience, every day for two years.
I'm glad someone finally showed you the friendship to ask you to (re?)consider your actions, and sad that you missed the point entirely. Not surprised, but sad nonetheless.
Robert, you and I have had this discussion already. In person. Where it didn't involve anyone else, and there was no face to save. It's a year later and you're still on it. Who is writing the script? When will you break character? When will any of the stuff you preach sink into your own ears? When, for the love of all that is holy about the silence, will you give over for someone else to shine? When will you offer new insight, news, or local content which is served from your own research or experiences and not a listserv?
Have YOU considered "other people's feelings" when you drone on at them as if they have not seen you write EXACTLY the same thing at them ten times before? I think not.
S.T.F.U.A.... 'kay?
Being Nice
Drew, it would help if you could be a little nicer. What you wrote is not a very nice way to interact with people. Decidedly "Un-OlyBlog" in my opinion. People, myself included, generally tend to prefer to be treated with kindness.
And I also really think it is not okay to tell people to STFU (either on OlyBlog, or anywhere else.)
Pentagon Budget is Now Larger than Budget of All 50 States Comb.
Here's an amazing statistic about how much power the Pentagon has relative to all of the rest of the 50 states combined. According to this article, the Pentagon's budget is at least $100 billion more than the budget of all 50 states combined.
Pentagon now spending more for war than all 50 States combined spend to run the country
I'm Sorry
Dear Drew and a.future.with.no.future, I am sorry that you don't like what I am doing here.
Come on, man ...
Any "apology" that begins with "I'm sorry that YOU ... " is blatant passive-aggression, or some other kind of verbal violence. Which is understandable considering that verbal violence has been directed AT you. Still, some valid points were made in the process.
Suggestion: Why not step back, take a week off from posting on Olyblog, and honestly consider the criticism offered here -- despite some of the meanness contained within.
Look
I don't want to be "mean" or rude or what have you. I know my post was critical, so perhaps I should add some construction to my criticism.
How about this Rob, as a constructive idea. Don't stop doing "what you are doing". Consider getting a blogspot account dedicated to antiwar and peace activism. Hell, you might even get good co-contributers. Periodically update Olyblog about what's new on your blog, every few weeks or so. That way the Olyblog community has access to your ideas, you have an open forum to supply them and this blog can refocus on hyper local journalism.
Sometimes posts of this nature are important, critical in fact to a larger community dialogue. I think back to the up-to-the-minute port threads, or the post Mayday threads as examples. Those are times when your angle is really needed.
As a near daily torrent though, well, I think you're hearing that it gets to be a bit much.
You also have a tendency to hold your feelings up as a shield. None of us are robots, we all have feelings too, but when a person puts ideas up for debate then a certain amount of personal emotional connection needs to be left at the door. You especially have a habit of using rhetoric as an argumentative tactic and any dissenting view point you seem to take as a personal slight.
If you had your own blog to post on, you could guide the comments and discussion and there could be a lot less flexibility about what kind of response is appropriate, which it seems might make you more comfortable.
Is that a good alternative? I think you should continue to contribute to Olyblog, but in the same manner as everyone else. That is to say by posting about local content and contributing to the discussion surrounding it in a personal and non-rhetorical way. Do you think that might work?
Importance
I think my thoughts on this topic are important. If to no one else, nor to the larger society and humanity as a whole, then they are important to me. And I don't appreciate being belittled or told that my thoughts are not important.
As you will see in the longer comment I just left below, I think this society is in sore need of some serious revision in terms of our stories about the past (including stories about Jesus.) That's part of what this post is about. Maybe you object to that. Maybe you didn't read into that aspect. But I think it's important. America is not a Christian nation - but Christianity is the dominant religion here. And I think it is an important part of the discussion about what is going on in the world, including here in Olympia.
So, Season's Greetings. Joy to the World. and Merry Christmas.
Yeah...
Live and Let Post
Hahaha
Hahaha - every time I think about how to respond to the comments in this post I feel like laughing.
Really I don't know what to say. I am trying to understand peoples' problems with my blogging. I can understand if it seems profuse, or if I come off as preachy. And I genuinely apologize if that's the case, as it seems to be.
All I intend to do is to raise awareness of the systemic injustices that exist in our society - and show how the mainstream media is not fulfilling its obligation to represent the whole story. All I intend to do is to share my thoughts. That was what this post was supposed to be about.
It was supposed to be about my thoughts about war and imperialism. And it was. And it was about more than that - something that I think is important - it's the fact that our stories, our mainstream and patriarchal stories, about the past - are in need of revision. I don't know much about Christianity, which may seem weird for someone who was raised Catholic (the truth is that I hated Sunday School, even at the progressive Church [St. Joan of Arc] that we attended, and my wonderful mother was sympathetic, for better or for worse, and didn't force me to go.)
Anyway - I think it is a valid point to critique modern day Christianity based on the fact that it is in a lot of ways out of tune with the basic message that Jesus brought - which was for social justice (which includes being against empire.)
When did people start saying that Jesus died for their sins? Does that even make sense? And how did people get to that point?
It makes more sense to me that Jesus died because he was a rebel - a rebel against a system that was corrupt and harmful, violent and cruel (a system which was not too different from our own - and a system which, interestingly, self-destructed upon its own violence, exploitation and profligacy.)
I think these are valid thoughts, and questions, and I don't understand why people would be particularly angry by my raising them.
Everyone has their own blog at OlyBlog, and everyone is welcome to share their thoughts about any issue.
I promoted this post to the front page because it relates to thoughts that I had during my regular participation in the weekly Olympia Fellowship of Reconciliation Friday Evening Peace Vigil at Percival Landing.
Yet, I can accept if people are aggravated, annoyed, bothered, or feeling pestered by my frequent ruminations about war and peace, justice and oppression, violence and satyagraha, nonviolence, compassion - etc.
It may be a little profuse, and I certainly wouldn't want to come off as a caricature, since I am a living breathing, warm-blooded mammal of the sentient and cognitive human persuasion, who is 100% totally and completely worthy of being (as are we all.)
hahaha, so I also don't want to come off as preachy, and sincerely apologize for whenever that's the case. I will work to make it clear in the future when I am sharing my thoughts. Because that's all I ever really intend to do. Sure I want to change minds. Maybe that's the problem. Maybe I am not going about it in the best way possible. Food for thought. ...Although, if anyone wants to hear me preach about the ways of the world - the serious ills and the tremendous potentials that exist - then I just might so be willing to oblige. I do like to talk, but I also like to listen and understand.
So while I don't appreciate the criticism - especially that which comes across as harsh, mean-spirited, demeaning, invalidating or in anyway belittling of my creative spark, my thoughtful imagination, and/or who I am - I do appreciate meaningful and productive feedback, in terms of how my blogging affects people personally. If it's too much for some, then that's good to know. Because I do really want to be effective in communicating what I understand to be the truth about the ways of our society, as well as my related thoughts and beliefs. It would probably do me well to know, and consider, my audience better.
So... I guess I'll leave it there.
My Best,
Berd
Oh my god.
Rob, I realize that I asked you to get over yourself. I now regret it, as it seems you are unwilling or somehow incapable of doing so.
I might as well scream into the wind or bail out the ocean with a thimble. There is no communication with you. I've encountered people like you before, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt.
No one can say I didn't try. Good luck in life Rob Whitlock. I'm sure you sleep like a baby.
"When did people start saying that Jesus died for their sins?"